Lathe recomendations please

[MattT]

Now I have exhausted the possibilites of my drill press and jigsaw it's time to get a lathe.
Thinking of this one,
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L160

or this one,
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L687

or perhaps go small with this....
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L685

and get bigger bits done by a pro...which kind of defeats the DIY thing :)

Lathe owners out there what do you think? I'm leaning to the slightly bigger one for the extra length and bigger swing.
Projects in mind are a 2" shaft pillow block mount which would have an RA shaft around 500mm long.

At this stage I know only what is on youtube and what my Engineer brother can tell me.... A bit scary but I'm keen!

Where to buy from?

Tell me your likes/dislikes and any thing else relevant. Been bitten seriously by the DIY bug....more fun than looking through scopes.

Thanks in advance.

Matt

[sn1987a]

A really serious DIYer would build his own lathe :P

[torana68]

I wouldn't buy a new lathe under 2,500, and I'd avoid Chinese ones, they are sloppily made and wear out fast, parts that should be hardened are not.
Don't forget you'll also need various tooling and a solid stand to mount it on as it needs to be mounted dead level. Pick up a copy of Australian Model Engineering , current issue has a few adds for lathe's.
Roger (fitter and machinist, amongst other things)

[uwahl]

I know didly squat about lathes but for astro gear whatever you get needs to be able to cut both metric and imperial threads of various pitches (24 TPI is a common thread pitch as is the t mount 42mm diameter 0.75 mm pitch.) I presume lathes come with the ability to do this. The lathe will need to be able to cut thread on the inside and outside of 1 1/4 inch to 3 inch tubing. Apologies if this is too obvious - as I said I know very little about lathes.

[Dealy]

Matt the outlay for the lathe is just the beginning.

To have a good set of tooling you can spend that much again.

It's like astro gear with scopes and eyepieces.

If you do end up buying don't waste your money on the cheapest thing you can find. There are forums for everything these days. Find a metalwork forum and ask lots of questions there.

From my experience the Taiwanese machines are much better than the Chinese.

Cheers, Kev

[MattT]

Thanks all, really good advice here. Magazines...forgot they still exist!!!
Steve....nice creations....really nice! Wished I still lived in Adelaide and I pay you a visit.... Will have to look up metalwork forums.
Lots of research needed, at least I have the time and not in a mad rush. Now I have a few ideas where to begin looking.
A work in progress :thanx:
Cheers
Matt

[Ausrock]

I almost replied just after you posted the initial question but decided to wait to see other responses.......with due respect to Kinetic, it's long been believed and proven that in most cases, Taiwanese manufactured equipment surpasses the Chinese "copies".

There's a very good reason that s/hand Myfords, etc., will frequently command a higher price than a new Asian manufactured machine.

[UniPol]

Look around for a Hercus, no longer made, but plenty of spares and pretty well indestructible.

[jenchris]

I fondly remember the 20 foot beds on the lathes at my college...
Removable gap pieces that allowed a swing of 15".
Chucks with a capacity of 24 inchs with the dogs reversed.
Three jaw chucks that took two people to lift into place....

[ZeroID]

From my limited experience with a small chinese lathe which has been surprisingly useful.
Bigger is always better, seems to be a bit more robust and capable obviously and it's never big enough, there will always be something that is just outside the swing or length.
As a hobbyist your duty cycle will be quite low compared to engineering shop requirements. If you take care of it a Taiwanese or Chinse will probably still outlast you.
Myfords and Hercus's are great but bloody heavy !! Also old and if not well maintained can be in worse condition than a new small lathe from anywhere. Bed wear, half nuts worn etc etc.

[MrB]

There are Chinese lathe bashers everywhere, but there are more Chinese lathe owners that are proving the bashers wrong.
Liken it to the Skywatcher/William Optics etc versus Takahashi/Astrophysics etc debate. Some people take the attitude that the cheaper scopes are crap, but they have their place.
Do you want a Ferrari or maybe a Holden? Or maybe just a Hyundai?

Yes, English/Australian/American iron is nicer but if you don't want to spend a fortune or you don't have the space, the smaller Chinese bench lathes are a good compromise.
Even second hand Myford/Hercus/South Bend etc etc can come with their own problems (possible wear, rust, flogged bearings, dings on the ways)
Do avoid the 'L685' model from H&F tho, it only has an MT1 spindle taper, 11mm spindle bore and piddly carriage, crazy. A similar sized and priced 7x lathe(which H&F have replaced with the 685... Even more crazy) has MT3 and 20mm bore.
Go with your gut and get something bigger, the 'L160' you linked is a very popular lathe world wide and is sold as a '9x20' by many vendors. The amount of info out there for this size lathe is absolutely huge, do a google search for 9x20.

[torana68]

my comment was as a tradesman to a non trades person and generic in nature, if he takes someone in the know he may well find a good ish Chinese one (Taiwan is better) If I said yeah go buy a Chinese one he will find himself in trouble so my advice was to help him not to bash a particular countries rubbish... sorry ... products :) . Its actually the importers fault, they but the cheapest they can not the good ones to make a quick profit. If you know the difference , how to test for hardened beds , how the cross slide should move etc go for it , otherwise avoid them unless you get a recommendation for a specific one from someone in the know, same with telescopes actually!

[AndrewJ]

Agree with earlier comments re being able to cut both metwurst and imperial threads if you want to make adapters and threaded fasteners.
I bought an L192 ( AL-300 ) which is probably too large for hobby work, but as mentioned earlier, you can always cut small on a big lathe but you cant cut always big on a small lathe. ( think 2" fittings etc )
( I quite easily made an aluminium threaded adapter for my low light video camera using something like 12mmOD and 0.5mm pitch )
One other thing to look at is how the thread cutting gears work.
Most lathes list only a "few" of the std threads, but if you reverse engineer the gearing used, you may be surprised at how many threads you can cut.

Andrew

[sn1987a]

Is this one any good for the money?. I know nothing about assessing lathe quality.

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/hope-valley/power-tools/hercus-metal-lathe/1071014721


Damn you Matt T now I'm lookin' at lathes...must resist.:P

[torana68]

you'd need to check carefully for wear and find out what threads it can cut, what tooling if any comes with it. A Hercus 260 would be pretty good if you can find one, ask around ,there is probably a second hand machinery business somewhere near you.

[ZeroID]

Dammit .. got me itching to upgrade now !
A mate of mine is an agent and imports the Seig branded stuff. My small lathe is a Seig .....

[UniPol]

I agree with Roger, a Hercus 260 series would be a good choice and they are predominantly metric and relatively cheap. I see one comment that Hercus's are very heavy, well, that may be so but metal lathes are, it is not as if you are moving them around, I don't think there is a grab and go metal lathe? perhaps an Emco Unimat would be considered one though :lol:. Myfords are a superb lathe for serious amateurs as they have a number of excellent accessories designed for the modeller but are quite light in construction. They are mostly imperial and this generally wouldn't suit younger people.

It is pretty hard to explain to people what a metal lathe is capable of if they are not mechanically minded or if they have never used one and wish to pursue modelling. After nearly fifty years of using lathes and mills for my steam engine and telescope restoration hobbies their use comes naturally. A lot of the time you spend thinking and planning various projects and yet the machining operations can be relatively short. I have four metal lathes, mills, drills, a couple of wood lathes and various other specialty machines to keep me sane.

My latest lathe acquisition is an Austrian Emco Maximat Super 11 metal lathe which is considered to be one of the best serious modellers lathe ever made (along with Myfords). It is a shame they are no longer made. To put things in perspective, the Super 11 as shown with the milling attachment and cabinet cost me the equivalent of a very good used Tak TOA-130. I have attached a pic of the Super 11 from one of my Emco brochures.

[MattT]

Have been reading up on the 9x20 lathes. Thanks Simon, that is the class lathe I do want to get...whatever I end up with it needs to have a vertical mill and a 4 jaw chuck.

My main concern is getting it to my shed, up 23 steps :eyepop: thankfully not all in a row, but the weight of the thing will matter.

Very helpful comments thanks all, and Barry....sincere apologies for starting this thread :lol:
Matt

[AndrewJ]

Use helium balloons :D

Andrew

[torana68]

Ok with those requirement you narrow the field right down and recomendations would be completely different ......... what did you buy?

[MattT]

Nothing yet!

Been checking out youtube vid's and for me a Seig SC4 or the one in my first post are the two front runners.

A large part of the decision is the weight of the thing. Around 100kgs is ok 150+kg's at the moment isn't, which narrows it down somewhat.

Of course I could just forget it until we move to a house that has better access, but that's years away.

I want one to knock up a 2" shaft pillow block mount at some stage in the future and the SC4 does fit the bill on a few fronts.

I know it's Chinese etc but it's a heck of a step up to the way I build stuff now.

Matt

[garymck]

Hi,

I have a Sieg sc4 lathe purchased from here:
http://www.ausee.com.au/shop/
Was able to negotiate a package deal on lathe and tooling to get a decent discount.

The lathe was the biggest I could get into my workspace. Two people are just able to lift it!!

The lathe needed nothing other than a clean up and has worked perfectly from the get go. Using a diamond tool holder I can get a mirror finish on aluminium with no effort.

I have previously owned an AL51G lathe and believe me, it is not in the same league as the SC4. Needs to be upgraded before it is even useable (4 bolt toolpost mod)

I have no regrets and the Sieg will last me out. Happy to answer any questions about it.
cheers
Gary

[torana68]

they do some funny stuff (machines imported from "over there") ie I hear the cross feed markings are just numbers not measurements, something to be mindfull of. Once it comes down to low price/low weight there probably isn't much else, seems to be a lot of Seig stuff around.

[John0z]

I have an older model of the AL51G - actually it is an AL50GB, does metric and imperial thread cutting. I got it in 2007 when I thought I was going to be making a lot of stuff for telescopes. Other comments are right, the lathe is just a start, and to make it useful - eventually I spent about $7K including a small mini-mill and universal dividers, etc. The other lathes you mentioned are too small. With the benefit of hindsight, this lathe was probably the right one to start with, big enough for most of my tasks, easy to learn to use, not too big that if something goes wrong (and it does) that things break etc. Lately I have been thinking of upgrading to a bigger lathe, and definitely a bigger mill.

For threading, I use a spindle crank handle as the motor low speed is not low enough. It works well. The largest work I have done on this is about 4" diameter. Bear in mind, this is a small lathe. My suggestion on a mill when you are ready to decide and have settled on the one that fits your bill, buy a bigger one.

[MattT]

Thanks John. Like your comment on choosing a Mill.

It's going to have to wait til tax return time so until then I'll have lots of time to dig around.