Visual observing with a digital screen - Video Astronomy

[csb]

I only do visual observing however I would like/LOVE to be able to see more detail and possibly more colour in nightsky objects, especially dso's. I like what can be seen with video astronomy.

What digital imaging device with a built-in screen can I attach to the telescope that will let me do visual observing and not have to have extra equipment (same as video astronomy but without seperate monitor/laptop and no real need to record).

I am considering a DLSR camera because it has a built-in screen.

With the DSLR:
Will I have a live image?
Will it have more detail than visual observing through the eyepiece?
Will the be colour?
Will the image be larger scale/size than what the eye sees through the eyepiece?
Will a Canon 350D be suitable?

Would a mobile phone be more suitable?

I realise that camera, or phone, will need an adapter to attach to the telescope.

I have a cg5 GoTo mount with Celestron 200mm sct, refractor 120mm & Saxon 150mm mak. I will be trialing these 3 scopes for which are most suitable for this "digital observing".

Thanks

[billdan]

Hi Craig,

First off if you haven't already connected the 350D to the telescope you will need an adapter that replaces the 350D Lens.
This adapter then slides into your focuser, however with the CCD chip embedded deep inside the camera body achieving focus may be difficult and a modification to the telescope may be warranted.

Secondly I believe the 350D does not have Live View, I thought the 450D was the first with Live View.

Assuming it does have Live View, only bright objects, Moon, Jupiter, Saturn and M42 will be possible in video mode. Anything dimmer will need longer exposure times (welcome to Astro-Photography) to build up a decent picture.

Detail and colour again is dependent on exposure time. Image Scale is dependent on the size of the CCD chip, but should be equivalent to the FOV of your lowest magnification eyepiece.

If you are interested in Video Astronomy, Stargazers Lounge have a dedicated forum for this, check it out may give you more information of what can be achieved.

http://stargazerslounge.com/forum/123-video-astronomy/


Regards
Bill

[csb]

So do you have a dslr Bill? What is rhe live image like?

I have googled for using dslr for live viewing but I haven't found anything helpful. All astro sites talk about astrophotography usage for dslr.

Also googled digital devices with built-in screen but no useful info.

I am trying to avoid video astronomy method - camera with external monitor. And astrophotography is out for me.

I may have to test some devices and also hopefully get some more advice.

[doppler]

Hi Craig, with live view you will only see the brightest stars. I don't think that you will find a stand alone viewer a web cam type camera will still need a screen ie a laptop.
To see colour or more detail you need to take a short exposure at high iso and with a fast f ratio scope.
Here is a pic of the orion nebula 15sec at iso 6400 (canon 1100d) 120mm f5 achro refractor.

[billdan]

Craig, I started off with a Pentax KD100 which didn't have Live View, however I did see the Moon and Jupiter with someone else's setup with Canon Live View.

He only used Live View for focusing before taking an image, but I was impressed with the Moon video, Jupiter was a bit small and you couldn't see much detail like you would with a high power eyepiece.

Remember at prime focus you are at the scopes lowest magnification, unless you connect the camera behind an eyepiece (which has its own set of issues).

Regards
Bill

[julianh72]

As an alternative to trying to use a DSLR in LiveView, what about a low-cost high-sensitivity colour star-cam (like a ZWO MC or Orion StarShoot or similar) and a cheap 8" - 10" Windows tablet computer (which you can pick up for a couple of hundred dollars). You can set the camera for "moderately long" exposures of 10 - 30 seconds say, and get a refresh on screen for every frame. It's almost the same thing as true 'live" viewing, but will give you much greater sensitivity and ease of use than trying to use a DSLR for visual amplification. An 8" - 10" Windows tablet can give a pretty good image when you view the camera preview window in full-screen mode.

(Just make sure the camera is capable of long time exposures for DSOs, not just a short-exposure planetary video webcam camera.)

[csb]

Thanks for pointing out why a dslr will be unsuitable. That is what I needed to know.

The video camera with tablet seems a good idea. Thanks Julian. Video astronomy is actually what got me thinking about live views with digital (or analogue) equipment. And using a tablet sounds great.

So it needs to be windows. Not that that's a problem.

So more thinking and I'll have to visit some video astronomy sites. Plenty of time - actually I still need to decide on which 2 telescopes to keep.

In the meantime I will probably try some mobile phone adapters. They are cheap enough for experimenting with.

[julianh72]

A Windows tablet will be easier than any other alternative that I can think of, because iPads and Android tablets etc generally won't interface with standard USB cameras.

I use a ZWO ASI120MC camera connected to an 8" Toshiba Encore tablet that I bought about a year or so ago (it was originally running Windows 8.1, but is now running Windows 10 very happily). My total outlay for the camera and tablet was about $550, but prices might have gone up a bit with the falling Aussie dollar.

[5ash]

I think if you truly want to do "video astronomy" you need to get a CCD video camera which integrates exposures up to about 2.56 sec like the G star ex or 10sec like the Samsung 4000. These are very sensitive cameras and gare the nearest thing your get to live view of deep sky objects. The g star is a mono camera and the Samsung colour . If you have the money Atik have recently released a video camera for the purpose you described. I'd imagine it would be very good. I spent several years using the G star and Samsung to capture photos and know they are capable of doing what you want. The ZWO cameras are excellent but are really solar system cameras and need much longer exposures to give similar results.
Regards philip

[julianh72]

Not really 100% correct - they might be primarily intended as solar system cameras, but the ASI120MC for example can do exposures of up to 1,000 seconds, so can definitely do DSO work as well.

[5ash]

I think you misunderstood my line of thought , I was talking about near real time video observing of DSOs. A matter of a couple of seconds lapse between taking and observing a video stream.
Regards philip

[mental4astro]

Hi Craig,

I enjoy video astronomy, and find it a fantastic tool with outreach nights under light polluted skies. For outreach, I take two scopes, one for visual use, and another with the camera and a small portable DVD player as the monitor.

I started with the GSTAR EX CLR (http://myastroshop.com.au/products/details.asp?id=MAS-071C) colour video camera from myastroshop. It is a dedicated astro video camera that is easy to use. Being colour, its resolution is not as good as a monochrome camera. But is you want an all in one colour camera, it is a good place to start. It has a built in UV/IR filter over the chip that cannot be removed. It comes with a 1.25" adapter.

I now use another camera, a 'cheapie' from aliexpress (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-3-SONY-960H-EXview-HAD-CCD-II-700TVL-0-0003Lux-Real-WDR-OSD-3D-DNR/583938938.html). It is more sensitive than the GSTAR, but because it is not a dedicated astro video camera, it is a more involved to do what we want. It also has more TV lines than the GSTAR, and shows a wider true field of view. This camera can be ordered either with or without a built in UV/IR filter. Using the camera under light polluted skies, you really do need a UV/IR filter, which can be a 1.25" one put into the 1.25" adapter. Like the GSTAR, it has the camera controls on the back of the unit. It is much less expensive than the GSTAR, but it IS more tricky to use to achieve the astro results we want. You will need to purchase a separate c-mount to 1.25" adapter, coax-video cables and power source (12V). All up it is comes in at about half the cost of the GSTAR.

If you want a camera that just works with minimal buggerizing to switch between planets/Moon & DSO's, I'd recommend the GSTAR.

If you don't mind the extra work that the 'cheapie' camera involves in order to get more grunt, you might enjoy using the cheapie. Make no mistake, it really is more involved as the instructions are poor, and you will need to do all the ground work to determine the appropriate settings - no free lunch here...

I've also used a ZWO colour CMOS camera, and found it similar to the GSTAR in terms of sensitivity, but probably better resolution, but not as sensitive as the 'cheapie'. In terms of ease of use, it is as easy to use as the GSTAR, with very similar imaging capabilites (software wise).

[csb]

I checked on some video astronomy forums and found some good info. A USA store is selling a package that fits the bill.

Orange County Telescopes (USA) is selling a complete package for live viewing including small 7" flat monitor - the Revolution Imager. They have modified an existing video camera and packaged it with monitor, battery, cables & carry case. Aimed at beginners to video astronomy or those who are not sure how to put such a kit together.

Ken(BallaratDragons) was sent the Revolution Imager and has made a youtube video review of the it.

This similar to your idea, Julian: Camera + tablet. I want to not have a lot of cables. Equipment size is also imortant, small is good. The tablet or monitor can probably be mounted on the scope somehow.

The Revolution kit seems to fit what I want except the monitor could be higher resolution - although some screen shots look good of dso's. However for the price shipped to Oz I could maybe get better imaging quality buying piecemeal. Will have to research what I need.

[5ash]

Could you supply some details of the camera you bought on aliexpress
Regards philip

[mental4astro]

Hi Philip,

There's a link in the first line of the paragraph you quoted to it, in the blue lettering "a 'cheapie' from..."

Alex.

[5ash]

Thanks Alex , getting too old to see hyperlinks or even hyperspace if it exists ,lol.
Regards philip

Ps that camera looks very similar to the one described as the" revolution imager"

[csb]

Another version of that camera, still from Aliexpress, was/is being used by IIS member Ballaratdragons. It is called the LN-300.

SAlex, you say it is trickier to use. Is that just referring to working out appropriate settings to get a good image?

I wonder what is actually modified to convert to the Revolution Imager?

(Alex, I must have been typing my previous comment when you posted your 1st comment in this thread.)

[mental4astro]

I just had a look at the Revolution Imager - same camera as in my 'cheapie' link, with all the bits and pieces that are needed.

[csb]

On cloudy nights forum there are some threads on the same camera. They mention PAL version is better for astro than NTSC.

So with the camera + power & power cable + camera to monitor cable + 7" lcd monitor + nosepiece + focal reducer, I will be able to do live viewing in 8“ sct?

I don't need to mod the camera?

Alex, what is the "extra work" to get an image with this cheapie camera than with Gstar or similar?

[AG Hybrid]

ooooo that Revolution Imager kit is looking very interesting. The setup guide video they even used a telescope I have :D. Just need a tracking mount. The Advanced VX mount in the video looked pretty good too!

[csb]

I also think it seems good n straightforward to use. Perhaps a higher resolution monitor would be good.

It also has a control box.

[mental4astro]

The instructions that come with the 'cheapie' camera are appalling. So the extra work comes from determining for yourself what the appropriate settings are. The makers of Revolution Imager seem to have determined these settings, and MAY have configured the camera for astro use. There is no info directly mentioning this, only alluding. As I have no experience with the Revolution Imager, I cannot speak for it. I'm not being dismissive, just cautious. I do like how they've made the TFT screen capable of being mounted onto the scope using a tripod ball attachment :)

Sourcing the bits and pieces to make the 'cheapie' work is easy and inexpensive. But the trade off is determining the 'instructions' for yourself.

[csb]

That's what I was hoping to hear, Alex. And so I also found that OC Telescope have supplied suitable settings for the camera. Looking good.

So what has actually been modded, if anything, is just a guess. May be physical mod or software mod and may not matter anyway.

The monitor mount is a great. Mounting the monitor was something I was considering - that was the convenience of a dslr camera.

[mental4astro]

Craig, thanks for suggestion OC Telescopes. I've gone through the three videos of the Rev.Im. camera they have. So far from what I've seen, one great innovation over the stand alone camera is the remote control for the menu. That is a great bonus as it can be awkward at best to push the buttons on the back of the camera.

I can't say that so far I've seen anything by way of enhancements on the camera. The on screen menu that I've seen is identical to what I have. But like I said earlier, the people behind the Rev.Im. would have determined what are the optimal settings for the camera, saving the user a whole heap of time and effort.

The focal reducer is a great tool to use with an SCT, or other slow instrument. Using it on a fast Newt introduces too much field curvature as the reducer is not really designed for Newts. Increasing the distance between the reducer and the chip also increases the TFOV the camera can see. I'm sure that a point will be reached where increasing the distance will start introducing vignetting as the edge of the TFOV of the scope is reached, but I don't see this as a major problem. I see it as a marker saying not to go any further. So far I've only used the reducer on the end of the 1.25" nose piece, and I haven't reached the point where I've seen the edge of the FOV of the scope/optical train. Same with the GSTAR.

The videos from OC Telescopes has given me some further ideas on how to manipulate the camera. When these clouds decide to bugger off I'll look to set it up again from home... :cloudy:

What I've struggled with is the overexposing of objects. I need to work out the way to balance out the exposure time with the sense-up setting. I'll have a look at those CN threads too. Daytime use of the camera, and with the planets is relatively easy. It is the faint stuff I've struggled with, like nebulae and galaxies. GC's are flaming brilliant in it. I picked up M4 in my 8" f/4 dobbie (so no tracking), and it out performed a mate's ZWO camera I used with the same scope the same night.

[mental4astro]

I had a look at Ken James' CN thread on the Revolution Imager, and his first light video of it. The camera is the same as I have, with exactly the same quibbles - nothing preset for astro. But the thread and video explained a lot on how to deal with the camera, :thumbsup:

Now, for the clouds to clear... :rolleyes:

[csb]

Glad you found some very useful info Alex.

The remote box is great and a similar remote can be bought, separately, for US$50 from Astro Video Systems, in USA. They make/mod a camera which may be based on the LN300 and have also made a remote. So it may work with your camera. Their camera has some connection as LN300 for the remote cable.

This store sell DSO-1 camera which, as I said, is similar/same as LN300. They state, “This camera is custom modified by Astro-Video Systems both in hardware and firmware based on proprietary AVS work.”


Pricing:
Camera only US$109
Camera with all needed cables & nosepiece to start viewing US$179.

There is plenty of info on the Astro Video System website (link below) and good reviews on the web.


http://www.astro-video.com/dso-camera-body-dso-1.html


I have sent an email to AVS to ask if they ship overseas. I couldn’t find any info on the website nor on astronomy forums. Probably means they don’t but I have a relative in USA so that may be the way to go. I am certainly interested in the camera when I eventually do get an astrovideo kit. Adrian, this may be better option than the Revolution - better pricing and options.

[csb]

I just got an affirmative reply from Matt at Astro Video Systems. They do ship to Australia and he quoted US$28 for a camera body + remote.

I emailed him less than an hour ago. Small world!

For camera body + wired remote + shipping = AU$265 approx.

(I intend to source cables, nosepiece, monitor myself due to exchange rate with US$ at the moment)

[AG Hybrid]

That's fantastic. The Dob cam is nice haha! The hand remotes look like iPod shuffles. I don't see a "buy" button anywhere on the website?

[AG Hybrid]

NVM I see you have to order it directly viz email and paypal. I like the bluetooth model is interesting. Can control the camera from your phone.

[csb]

On AVS site click contact then order.

Order as per instructions on the order page.

Oops! I see you found out.

[csb]

Alex, Matt from AVS (who sells the DSO-1) said this is the controller used for the Rev Imager.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Shipping-RJ-UTC-Remote-Controller-for-CCTV-Camera-Closed-circuit-television-remote-control-Not-Include/32291054519.html

[DavidLJ]

You might be interested in this Youtube video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6M0nAV9VrE&feature=youtu.be But the camera is very new and quite pricey.

[mental4astro]

Craig, thanks for the link! :thumbsup:

[mental4astro]

Ok, just bought the remote. Let's see what happens... :)

For those of you who do not have an aliexpress account, the UTC Remote Controller can be found on Ebay:

UTC Remote Controller on Ebay (http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC 0.H0.Xutc+remote+controller.TRS0&_nkw=utc+remote+controller&_sacat=0)

[csb]

So you really did want a controller. Great price too.

Wow, the Atik gives fantastic viewing with good detail.

However, the DSO1 is my kind of price with good views.

[mental4astro]

Had a look at that Dobcam, and noticed something interesting:

My 'cheapie' camera, the Dobcam AND the Revolution imager, all the same camera! :lol:

Remember one thing - all the DSO images we are being shown with these cameras have all been taken under dark skies - light polluted skies wash out video images too. No free lunch here either. BUT, any of these cameras WILL show DSOs under urban skies that are invisible to the nsked eye, even with thecamera rigged up to an 80mm scope and you looking through a 10" scope rigjt next to it.

The neat thing about how the Dobcam is delivered, they have made an adapter that accomodates the camera inside a 2" focuser - the camera really is tiny, and does fit inside a 2" focuser! This allows for a 'non-photo optimized' scope to reach focus. An eq platform is still needed for longer integration times.

[AG Hybrid]

Whats the max exposure length on these security cameras?

[mental4astro]

These cameras have a maximum exposure of around 1/50 sec, down to 1/100,000. They also have an adjustable 'integration' period, which essentially is a variable stacking function, called sense-up. The integration can be upto 1064x. All done automatically.

[AG Hybrid]

So cant really tailor these to 10-20 second exposure stacking. So aperture is still rather important to seeing deeper unlike how AP works.

[Camelopardalis]

At the focal length of a Dob, the field rotation would make a nasty mess in a 10-20 second exposure.

[csb]

I'm still having a think but I will probably get the DSO 1 instead of ln300 or similar.

It gets good reviews.
Comparison screen shots under light polluion come up a winner for the DSO.
Colour images even at highest settings (ln300 & mallincam revert to mono).
Price is about right.

Still looking for a suitable 7" 12v monitor. Needs to have minimum resolution 800 X 480 to get highest possible resolution from the camera.

[csb]

Dunk, on Astrovideo Systems website, the info on DSO-1 mentions something about derotating live stacking.Possibly to do with field rotation?

[AG Hybrid]

Not planning to use it in a dob.

[rogerco]

Try this site they have a few monitors suitable for various electronics project but this one might suit but have a look at the others as inputs vary
http://core-electronics.com.au/lcd-monitor-7-hdmi.html?___SID=U

Roger

[Camelopardalis]

The software requires a Windows machine to run, although stacking fairly low resolution images in near real time doesn't require a huge amount of processing power.

You could try this out with the free Deep Sky Stacker Live instead http://deepskystacker.free.fr/english/live.htm

The SuperHAD chips in the DSO are very sensitive but the chip in the DSO-1 is tiny, so your FOV would be pretty small.

Probably a set of parameters to start with would be a fast, short refractor and a tracking mount. Push the exposure times and see what happens :D

Another alternative is to invest in one of the Sony Alpha cameras with the crazy high ISO...apparently the Milky Way is visible in Live View mode...

Given you have a tracking equatorial mount and a Canon DSLR already, the lowest price of entry is a T-adapter so you can attach your camera to your refractor. So long as you're polar alignment is reasonable, you can push the exposure time with high ISO and see what you get. You'll get a relatively wide FOV with the Canon sensor, and you should start to see colour in brighter objects in relatively short exposures (<1min).

[csb]

I will be using an 8" sct so no problems with rotation I suppose. Also have a focal reducer.

I have seen images on other forums using the dso-1 and fov is good enough.

I'm looking for a monitor around $100.

That monitor you linked to Roger, seems overpriced @ $248. Possibly same unknown quality as ebay $50 monitors. I cut n pasted some info from the site (in italics):

Note: This is not a touchscreen, the box is lying to you. The manual is also a dirty liar, saying it comes with a VGA/USB cable. Don’t believe these lies.

So mis-information on the box and manual like that does not build trust in the product. Although very decent of the store to put that info on the product page.

[AG Hybrid]

Saw a review of the Revolution kit. Someone attached it to a 50 mm finder and pointed it at M42 and it was ablaze with colors. Love to see the result in a 8" or 10" F4.

[Camelopardalis]

Revolution is a neat little bundle for the price.

An 8" f/4 would give a 21' x 16' FOV, without the (included) reducer. At least you wouldn't have to worry about coma :P

[mental4astro]

This thread is turning into a quite a discussion place for video astronomy!

Craig, your original intention in your starting this thread I think has morphed into something larger! :atom:

I wonder if this thread is maybe worth considering for 'sticky' status? Video astronomy is the 'Ugly Duckling' of astroimaging, but still a powerful tool and all many people want from the imaging stakes.

For me, this thread has provided a fantastic resource that lastnight finally saw me be able to tame the little video camera I've had for close to a couple of years, to provide me with the best colour image of M42 and Eta Carina I've had on a screen! Even better, in taming it, I've come to see that the camera in the intergration process also does some image aligning so I did not get streaky stars! Even at the maximum X1064 integration rate!!! :D

Sorry folks, I don't have any images of last night's session as I was using a dumb monitor - I wanted to concentrate entirely on getting the camera settings down pat. All I can offer is a photo of the rig I used, a 114mm f/4.4 Tasco newt on a reclaimed Meade fork mount, coupled to a DIY wedge. The pic shows the monitor I used too. I was able to squeeze in 95% of M42 onto the screen with M43 tucked in too. Without M43 I probably would have had all of M42 on the screen - that's approximately a 1.0° TFOV {that's TWO MOON diameters, for Adrian... ;)} with 500mm focal length.

I can't wait to rig up the camera to my C8 & my 8" f/4 scope! :D

I'll talk to the Higher Powers about this thread too.

Craig, MANY THANKS MATE! for starting this thread! :)

Alex.

[AG Hybrid]

I have no idea how big or small that is lol. Give it to me in moon diameters.

Also, that little camera has some image stacking. That's pretty damn cool.
Re: Video astronomy as a sort of ugly duckling. I think its an emergent technology that has been under utilized by the Astro community. Let's be honest, not everyone can afford or more practically transport a large 20"+ telescope. But, a little 8" newt and smaller refractor's with a tracking mount and a camera + laptop or screen. You can fit that in the boot of a small car. Being able to see quite deep and in color in real time in a compact package. That's a great development. Color images are also what catches the eyes of the greater public too. As you say in the outreach programs you do Alex, your video astro setup is a big hit. Hell I've watched it personally a couple years back. You had a big crowd around you.

[Camelopardalis]

:lol: 2/3 of our Moon horizontal and half vertical.

[AG Hybrid]

That'll fit most things in there. Alright. Got some goals for gear acquirement in the next few months.

Damn and blast I just bought an expensive Tak diagonal.

[csb]

Same here, Adrian, I've got to get the gear. Still researching, no rush. AND I haven't bought any Tak gear! :xmas:

I now realise that a video camera will suit what I want from visual observing more so than with the eye. Video cameras can go deeper than the eye and, it seems, with larger image scale. Great!

Alex, I really am glad to hear that you have gotten control of your camera. AND great enthusiasm displayed as well. Your posts make a good read; we can see the short journey you have just been on to finally be able to get good imaging. So you must be very happy you bought the LN300 now. (But no real credit here. This thread was fairly self-serving and is like one of those questions that everyone wants to ask but doesn't.)

Now I am looking for a 12v LCD monitor with resolution of 800 x 480. I think 7" is a good size. I intend to mount it on top of the OTA above the eyepiece (maybe) or on the mount tripod just below the head.

I haven't had any luck finding a monitor below $100 in Australia, and for ebay purchase all sub $100 monitors are through Chinese vendors and I am wary that they state 800x 480 resolution but it may not actually be true. Does anyone know of where I can get a monitor (or have a monitor to sell)? I think 5" will be too small, 9" too large.

[Visionary]

I have just such a beast sitting atop my OTA. There is an emerging brand of Chinese photographic accessories trading under the name Apeture. A unit from Apeture will satisfy all your specs. The sell around $280 for a 7" they are worth every cent + $280.
I have a very strong feeling we will become familiar with the Apeture brand as we move into the third wave of Chinese manufacture.
A brilliant unit!

[AG Hybrid]

btw Alex. Was the telescope you were using have tracking at the time?

[csb]

Monitors that have low resolution are priced alright but those that have the 800 X 480 jump up in price.

Jaycar have a 9" 800 X 480 monitor for about $150. They also have a cheaper 7" but the resolution is low.

Alex n David, do you both use a camera with monitor for just visual observation? Do you mainly view this way?

[mental4astro]

Adrian, yes, the scope was tracking. Video astronomy still requires an eq tracking mount. What I was not too clear about was that the camera was able to deal with the alignment of my gear not being spot on, so it corrected for drift. If your scope does not track, the exposure time/sense up setting, needs to be shorter.

On the subject of exposure, as the single longest exposure of the LN300 is 1/60sec, the max. sense up setting of 1064X makes for an effective exposure of 17.73 seconds.

Craig, my use of video astronomy is as an outreach tool. It is not my primary observing method. I may use it more now that I've installed a Nexus system onto the little scope I use for video, and that I've now got good control of the camera. Sketching at the eyepiece is still my main niche in astro.

Fellow IISer, Bob (yes, 'Bob' is his username! :) ), does use video as his primary observing method. I spoke with Bob this week on this topic. Craig, you might like to drop Bob a PM as he may be able to give you some insight into using video as the main observing method. I've found Bob very knowledgeable and approachable, :)

[RB]

Made this thread a "Sticky" as requested and adjusted the title to reference "Video Astronomy".

:)

[mental4astro]

To get things going with the new sticky status of this thread, I've attached a couple of my very first and clumsy photos done with my GSTAR EX from my home in Sydney.

The pics were taken from my backyard two years ago while very new to VA. Yeah not too crash hot as I didn't have great camera control then. The globular cluster is 47Tuc, using an 8" f/4 Newt. The second shot was done using a C8 (sorry that it is not quite in focus as I was swapping the camera around on different scopes that night - pics looks better as a thumbnail :lol:). The apparent different scale between the photos is because of the different focal ratios. The pic of M42 was done using a 114mm 500mm fl Newt. The forth, of cause the Moon, using the same 114mm Newt. The quality of these images shows what bugger all experience can achieve like I had two years ago. I'll try to take some more images once the clouds bugger off, from home too.

A neat thing about many of these video cameras is they are not limited to being used with telescopes. CCTV lenses, and also camera lenses, can be used to achieve very wide angle shots of the sky. The last pic is the GSTAR with a CCTV lens. The camera can then be mounted on a tripod, or even piggybacked onto a scope - a good option so the scope can be used for visual, and the camera as a video feed.

[Visionary]

Craig, I use a monitor because I am vision impaired aka blind. I also use a monitor for terrestrial photography, it's part of a large project I started about two years ago. The 7" monitor from Aperture is an excellent piece of kit. In addition to an excellent HiDef display, it can carry its own battery, its light weight and positively anorexic.
I am now on the cusp of getting into astrophotography. I have spent a small fortune on this project but its beginning to bear fruit.
I also have a field monitor @ 27"' If you are experiencing age-related vision loss than you can gain tremendous utility from good monitors.
All the comments re faint fuzzies and colour are true. At this moment, my system can only deliver on bright objects, the Moon, Jupiter .... planetary stuff. My hope is, in fact, my plan is to develop a system that will take me beyond the Gass Giants and into the wider night sky.

[csb]

Alex, that's great to see what can be seen by a novice(?). So the LN300 can see further? It's also helpful you listed the equipment used.

I had a look at the Aputure monitors but I don't really want to spend that much. Rechargeable would be great! And slimline helps for weight.

How long does a charge last? How long to recharge?

I have found some 7" monitors with 800 X 480 resolution. $115 from oogadgets.com.au. I've never biught from oo but I've seen them on the web for years.

[AG Hybrid]

Hey Alex. I find it interesting that the back ground color of the 47 tuc pictures is different. The first picture is clearly brighter in all aspects including the sky glow. Am I correct in the assumption that the reason this is the case is due to the focal length used in the first scope was F4 and the second F10? If someone was wanting to do VA to beat the light pollution some what. Longer focal length is better?

[5ash]

Hi Adrian ,
a few years ago i used the G star and samsung 4000 to observe and capture DSO's . Accurate treacking was not so important and being able to see objects in near real time was great.Below are some pics aquired using G star and samsung 4000(colour) with a C9.25" , followed by stacking and processing in photoshop.
regards philip

[AG Hybrid]

Nice one. Seeing them in real time and in color must be great.

[csb]

Adrian, you should note that Philip's images have been processed with photoshop and image stacking to bring out the best of each image. These processes are not done at the scope but afterwards on a pc.

When viewing live on the screen I dont think you will get the same detail and sharpness and even colour can be enhanced wirh processing.

Possibly Alex's images of M42 and globulars more accurately represent what will be seen on screen. Note that he used a Gstar and said that he was a novice to AV at the time.

[AG Hybrid]

I knew. He said so himself. Doesn't mean it still wont be great.

[csb]

Yeah, I thought you probably had noticed. But your comment on the images did not show that realisation so I wanted to clarify for others who are new to astronomy.

Seeing dso's at the eyepiece is thrilling but I have always wanted more. Buy all accounts observing with a video camera and a small monitor will be great.

I took note of your gear. What telescope do you plan on using for video? Possibly a new purchase is upcoming.

[wayne anderson]

This may not be "Live Video Astronomy" but it is similar, after all the light from deep space objects has taken many thousands of years to travel here so adding another 5 to 10 seconds to the journey to bring out detail and colour is not too much to ask.

I have used a Sony A6000 DSLR to do this with my scope with reasonable results but this setup has limitations.

The Sony A6000 DSLR has a wifi connection mode to connect live with a phone or tablet using the inbuilt Sony wifi Remote software in the camera and Sony Play Memories wifi Remote software on the tablet or phone, some of the camera settings can be adjusted on the tablet, other camera settings were set to vivid colour and extra colour saturation of +5 with auto white balance, this brings out more colour in the image.

I used a 10 inch Samsung tablet wifi connected to the camera, live view was great for the moon and planets but deep sky objects showed only the bright stars.

The more faint deep sky objects needed just one quick 5 to 10 second exposure at iso 6400 to show reasonably good detail and colour on the tablet screen and this can be done remotely from the tablet software. At iso 6400 the image shows some noise and hot and cold pixels but on the 10 inch tablet screen it still looked very impressive.

Advantages of this method is simple quick setup and the ability to be free to move about with the tablet wifi connected and also others with you on the viewing night can also connect to the camera and take their own shots away with them on their tablets.

Disadvantages are the live view is not sensitive enough to show detail in deep space objects and having to wait 5 to 10 seconds for a detailed image and at iso 6400 the image can be a little noisy

Other modern DSLR cameras may also have live wifi connect, some may have better live view sensitivity making this work better.

Attached below are examples taken using this method


Note: these files have been made much smaller 1200x 800 to allow posting here the original files were 24mp in size 6000x4000 and much better in quality

Scope: 12 inch Meade LX200 at f6.3 (alt/az de rotated setup)
Camera: Sony A6000 DSLR

M20 Triffid Nebula (single 10 second shot and simulation of live view detail)

47 Tucana (single 5 second shot and simulation of live view detail)

[5ash]

Hi Wayne those 10sec views look fantastic , much better than a low resolution video camera. Colour is much much better as well .
Regards philip

[AG Hybrid]

Probably an Advance DX for the mount and I'm, trying to decide between a Skywatcher 8" F4 CF newt or a C8. Both of which the Advance DX can handle weight wise with ease. Might even grab one of the Skywatcher stand-alone auto guider units and make a finder-guider with a leftover Stellarvue 60mm finder I'm not using. Reviews suggest it seems to work.

Only just got a new job after 14 months not working. Will need to save up some money before I even consider another hefty astro purchase.

[csb]

14months? You certainly need to keep motivated and positive when out of work for so long. Congrats on the new job.

I only recently bought my Celestron C8 & cg5 GOTO mount Found it on eBay from Qld. I preferred it over a newtonian due to shorter physical length. It is the best performing scope I have owned.

[mental4astro]

Adrian, the difference between the pics of mine firstly are due to the focal ratio of each scope - one's f/4 the other f/10. But also the camera. The GSTAR colour camera I used has too much gamma gain, so things come washed out quickly under urban skies. The monochrome GSTAR camera has more gain control, so doesn't wash out, as too does the LN300. I might be able to get a pic or two using the LN300 over the next few days as the clouds have cleared for a few days. You'll see quite a difference.

Philip, I'm glad you posted those pics. They show that video not only provides a live feed, but the saved AV can be post processed using the same software as for AP to produce outstanding results, not just with DSO's but also the Moon and planets.

Mallincam is also close to releasing their most sensitive monochrome camera shortly (a little bird told me, :)) More sensitive and better resolution. Rock Mallin is always on the lookout for the best CCD chips available to produce better video astronomy cameras. Another camera line to keep an eye out for. Mallincams have a following here in Oz.

[glend]

I had an email from Sam at ZWO who advised they are releasing their range of two-stage TEC cooled ASI cameras at the end of this month. This could be a cost effective solution for video astronomy as some of the ASI cameras offer high frame rate video, usb3 connection, and two-stage TEC cooling for high QE performance. The two-stage TEC cooling adds $300USD to the cost of the uncooled cameras.

[mental4astro]

Just came back in from a session with my little 114mm scope and the LN300 camera. I have to say that I am disappointed with the image I was getting on my computer monitor - not as good as that with the camera connected to my kids' portable DVD player. I first suspect that the video program may not be good enough. I just did not get the same image quality.

Anyway, the pics I took are good enough for comparison reasons, if nothing else. So squint your eyes a bit when looking at the following photos! :lol:

I've set up the photos to compare the GSTAR EX colour camera, followed with the LN-300. Same objects, same scope, same single screen snapshot. The sense-up function on the GSTAR goes to 256X, and limited gamma gain control. The sense-up function on the LN-300 goes to 1064X, and a whole lot more gain control. On the kids' player, NGC 253 extends beyond the reach of the screen!

The GSTAR images are much more washed out. And the computer monitor just does not do justice to the image seen on the kids' DVD player, particularly for NGC 253.

So, in order of appearance, 47 Tuc, M42 and NGC 253. The Gain on the LN-300 photos was turned OFF, except with the additional pic of NGC 253 where gain is set to medium by way of comparison.

I now need to find a better image capture program for the computer. A live video feed on a humble little portable DVD player is so much better than my computer screen. Honest! :innocent: :prey:

Edit: It may not be the software that's corrupting the image quality, but the usb video grabber gadget that lies between the computer and the co-ax cable.

[sharptrack2]

This is probably really left field but... I'm about to scrap a Samsung laptop and have been making a list of parts I will scavenge. Would it be worth salvaging the camera chip for DYI video or still image setup? I think it was 2 or 3MP, standard resolutions. Have to check if it supported HD.

[csb]

In most reviews with screen shots, the LN300 (and similar cameras) come out tops compared to the Mallincam & Gstar. This includes the dso-1 and Revolution Imager. Thanks for the comparison shots.

Alex, is it possible that the larger screen is why the images appear less quality? I would think that without higher resolution from the camera the image quality would degrade with larger screens (even if the screen has higher resolution). Similar to digital zooming - increase image size but after a point image sharpness decreases.

I have just ordered the dso-1 with Bluetooth control. Matt from AVS is putting together a batch of cameras now and said that is a 3week process. Then it will be on it's way here.

[mental4astro]

It wasn't the screen size, Craig. The screen image was a small window on the computer screen, comparable to the DVD player. The problem I've been narrowing it down to is the video grabber that's converting the signal from the camera to a format that the computer can read. "Lost in translation" comes to mind...

There are also a few more settings I can play with on the camera. See how I go. But the image quality I'm getting on a dedicated monitor is just what I'm after. I don't do many screen grabs, and I don't capture video for post-processing work, so the camera-straight-to-monitor rig is good for me, :) But it is a good idea to improve my on-computer image too.

[mental4astro]

The first lot of pictures below show the neat screen grab - nothing altered in the image.

I've played around with the images, and while detail improves, it comes at the cost of graininess. But the altered pictures do give a better account of what is seen on a dedicated monitor. I've added a pic of the Tarantula nebula from last night too.

[csb]

Very impressive from a modest video camera. I will certainly be happy with viewing images of that quality.

It has been reported that the LN300 defaults to mono mode when AGC is on & high settings used. You seem to have found how to correct this perhaps?

[N1]

I'm sorry Alex but that is thoroughly underwhelming compared to your sketches or my own visual experience at the EP.

:scared3:

Don't get me wrong, there are no doubt benefits to this approach, but I guess it can also make one appreciate one's ability to experience stuff first-hand at the eyepiece.

[mental4astro]

Colour stability all comes from the settings. I've slowly come to the settings I have settled on after reading several threads on the camera, none of which had a definitive set of settings. I ended up zeroing on the last parameter that needed tweaking. Like I mentioned earlier, it took this thread for me to find the leads that I needed! :)

The controls of the camera are cryptic AT BEST. Remember that this is not a dedicated astro camera, and our purposes are out of the ordinary for it. GSTAR & Mallincam cameras are astro purpose cameras, so instructions are geared that way. You will need to ask Steve at Astroshop to send you the full instructions as the instructions that come with the colour camera are just too brief really, :rolleyes:

Mirko, no offense taken, :thumbsup:. It is all about horses for courses. Yes the images I've posted are 'underwhelming', as you say. I have a lot more to do to improve my image quality, and there are those who do get amazing results. For me VA is an out reach tool, & what I have is enough for me. But if you have vision impairment, or mobility difficulties, or a really confined to urban skies, VA can be the solution for you.

My initial inspiration for VA came from an astro night I did at Bear Cottage, a children's hospice, a few years back. I took my 17.5" dob, but a little voice told me to also pack my C5 & the modified webcam I had recently converted - the 17.5" sat in the corner all night, and we had a brilliant night looking at the Moon and Saturn! :). Not one of those kids had any chance of looking into an eyepiece. VA was the ONLY way I could show off the sky to them.

Today I use VA to compliment visual scopes at urban astro nights :)

[mental4astro]

Here's a few links to image taken either as screen grabs and/or with post-processing:

* Australia's own Ken James (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ken_james/sets/), from astrovideoforum with a 120mm f/5 achromat (http://astrovideoforum.proboards.com/thread/1072/screen-grabs-120mm-5-achromat) and from Ken's own Video Astronomy website (http://ballaratman.wix.com/videoastronomy#!gallery/c24vq)

* Fellow Aussie Shevill Mathers (https://picasaweb.google.com/109921669020426367250/VideoAstronomy1988Present?noredirec t=1#) :)

* Chris Appleton (https://www.flickr.com/photos/47296963@N08/)

* Arthur Inacio (http://www.astrobin.com/users/arthurinacio/)

* LN300 images (http://astrovideoforum.proboards.com/thread/1098/humble-begin-ln300) from astrovideoforum member giorgosrg. What I like about giorgosrg's pictures is he is using the same modest LN300 camera as me, but the difference is the quality of the video grabber device and the computer software for the on-screen image, and a 100mm f/5 achromat. No too shabby at all :)

[ChrisV]

Can you still get this LN300 camera anywhere ? I can't find anyone on ebay or aliexpress that has it with sense-up to do the long image exposure stacking.

Or do you have to go with the DSO-1 etc.

Thanks, Chris

[mental4astro]

Have a look here:

http://m.aliexpress.com/item/32431232707.html

No longer available at the bargain basement price of before.

[csb]

DSO-1 camera body only (nil cables) would be about US$140 shipped to Australia. That would be a better deal than the LN300 at the moment. DSO is already adapted for Astrovideo.

[ChrisV]

The US$70 camera is up on aliexpress again - with x1024 sense-up. Looks OK, although there has been a bit of discussion about its processing chipset on cloudynights.

I might as well get one and give it a go. I have a dodgy little DVD monitor and a pile of leads sitting around.

Chris

[Howard]

Like Wayne (posted 15-11-2015 11:54am), I too use a dslr/shutterless on high'ish ISO for live viewing.

I own 3 Mallincams and one ZWOptics camera for live viewing which I have done for about 4 years now. I have herniated disks in my neck and back so have troubles holding in position staring through EP's. Hence took to live viewing all those years ago.

But IMHO the dslr/shutterless route is easier to use and yields much sharper images. I use a Canon 700D for wider FOV (APS-C size sensor) and a Nikon J1 4/3's sensor which is about twice the mag of the Canon as its abut half the size. I say if you have a dslr, and a laptop, then try that first. Plus join night skies network on the web (free) to watch various guys use Mallincams, Samsungs, A7S's, Canons, ZWO's and other cams doing live broadcasting. You'll see the images live realtime from all those and learn heaps about the techniques with each.

My fav is my second hand Nikon J1, an adapter for it off fleeBay, a wireless shutter release, and a eye-fi card for it for a grand total of AU$230. I use a second hand 2006 Macbook which I got for $400 off Gummytree and use that for the past 4 years with a Windows partition on it in field.

It works fine as a totally wireless setup. Press the wireless shutter release, wait 2 secs @ ISO3200 double stars/focusing, or 5 to 20 secs for widefield, or globs or bright nebs, or stacked 20 secs series for galaxies ... which all come wirelessly to the macbook.

I use some free software called AstroToaster on the Mac which auto reads the incoming images from the Nikon and stacks auto if you tell it to. It uses the DSS Live engine (also free). Many of those live NSN broadcaster with Mallincams, Samsungs, Sony's, Canon's, ZWo's etc use AT to stack and colorise those cams images on the fly too.

Mallincam, the Atik Infinity cam, the Sony A7 series and cooled ZWO cams are all changing the live viewing scene. Quite an interesting time.

[mental4astro]

Hi all,

I've had a chance to play around with my new 8" f/4 dobbie set onto a Crossbow Equatorial Platform the last two nights, and a coupled my video camera to it. I got to view M42, the globular NGC 2808 and Eta Carina. I've attached screenshots from my computer. I also viewed these three using my kids' DVD monitor, and the image quality is down a noticeable amount on the computer compared to a live monitor image. But difference in aperture and focal length from the first lot of pics is remarkable. The second image of M42 is a photo I took directly of the TFT monitor.

Again, this is just showing what a video camera is capable of doing live. These screenshots I've just fiddled with a little detail to clean up the screenshot image to better resemble the direct monitor image. I need to work a little more in refining my alignment routine, which will come with some more practice. I'm also hoping to be able to adjust the amount of saturation around the stars. Might be an artefact to do with the camera too.

Ooooh, I can't wait until I've got my 12" and 17.5" dobs on this platform!!! :nerd: :2thumbs:

[brian nordstrom]

Wonderful stuff Alex
Brian.

[AG Hybrid]

That crossbow tracking platform looks mighty interesting indeed indeed. I must research them.

[eskimo20]

I recently bought the Revolution Imager kit from Mike Fowler.

Gave it it's first serious workout last night using my Bresser 5" achromat operating at about f 4.7 on an EQ6 goto.

Views were spectacular on my old 20" analog TV.

Here are a few screen grabs. No processing.

[csb]

Very nice pics Robert. So are Alex's too. Those are exactly the views that made me decide to get into video astronomy.

Both cameras do the job.

I got the DSO1 camera, based on reviews ob Cloudy Nights. Also bought a 7" lcd monitor. Easy to setup but my days are too busy at the moment.

[eskimo20]

Thanks Mate

This has really changed the way I look at the sky. I'm an old codger, my back hurts and my eyes are getting dim.

Looking at the universe on a colour TV is just what I needed to keep going in the hobby.

Cheers
Robert

[ChrisV]

Robert

Nice images. Below are frame grabs using10-20sec exposures with the Rev Imager (basically the LN300 Alex presented) through an 80mm refractor or a C8 and a cheap focal reducer.

I've just got a zwo224mc and started using sharpcap to do live stacking (5sec subs for ~1min) and get even better images of fainter objects. There is a current explosion of USB cameras from atik & zwo that are doing amazing things when coupled with the available software.

Chris

[eskimo20]

Chris

Nice work. Dark skies too. Something I'm struggling with at the moment.
The Southern Pinwheel is a challenging object for video - I'm still working on that one.

I have a ZWO ASI 120MC that I have used a few times for lunar & planetary. Nice camera at a good price. I don't think it will be suitable for DSOs without cooling (lots of hot pixels).

How do you find the 224MC handles the longer exposures?

Robert

[ChrisV]

Robert

Here's Pinwheel with the ZWO ASI224MC (on my 80mm refractor f5.9) - 6x 20sec stacked in sharpcap (the darkish background is a fudge from altering contrast during stacking). I need to use a good UV/IR filter otherwise its a mess in my light polluted area. I've put up some other pics on AVF.

The 224 has a lot of amp glow. You can see it in the bottom right corner. And I'm too lazy to take darks. You can't do high gain and long subs, its one or the other, then stack. Most of the stuff I'm doing now is mid-gain & 5-10sec subs for a minute or two.

Chris

[eskimo20]

Chris

That's nice - especially with the minimal processing.

I'll work on it some more with my video camera when the skies clear.

Seems it (and probably most galaxies) emit into the IR so I'll try it without the IR filter.

At this stage I think I'll just use "live" video on DSOs - basically for observing rather than imaging, with a few screen grabs here and there.

I'll dust off my ZWO for Mars and Saturn shortly.

Cheers
Robert

[CrazyGiza]

A quick question... Alex mentioned an eq platform for his dob 8inch. Is an eq platform absolutely needed for vidastro with a dob, even goto?

I was all but set on 12gotodob, i would like good ep views, but i would like the ability to drop a camera in as well. 50/50 timeshare, eyepiece or Ln300 (or cheap equivalent).
Ken Ballaratdragon's 4 or 5 second exposures with refractor on utube, is it doable on gotodob?

Should i reconsider the dob? Can someone suggest a scope for dso, vid and ep?

Moon and planets are cool, but ya get a good enough eyefull of those with everything. So 85% dso, 15% moon and planets....i know i know, ya cant have it all.

Sick of google running me in circles, thanks for your help or link.

Clear skies

[ChrisV]

- There's a few out there doing video with a dob alone, no EQ or ALTAZ mount, but not many. More using 80mm achros such as ST80, or small newts/MAks/SCts. You might need a bit of focal reduction on a dob/SCT/MAK as the cheaper CCDs are small, 1/3". Bigger glass doesn't = much better image with video. Its all about focal length.
- If you want to shift to such a mount - GOTOs just make life easier. Then you can do all the observing and controlling from inside on a monitor or a computer. And spend more time observing.
- If you get GOTO or a motorised mount an EQ mount is not essential. Most people use ALTAZ mounts as they are easier to set up. If you use a sensitive camera such as the LN300-type then is short exposures especially if you have focal reduction.
- Also many (including me) now run analog cameras though a frame grabber (or use a USB camera). Then you do short exposures 5 – 20sec and stack them in something like sharpcap which aligns, reduces noise etc. Again most use ALTAZ mounts with this just because they are easier.


I don’t use eyepieces so shouldn’t comment, but will.
I use an 8” SCT for smaller objects (with f6.3 or f3.3 focal reducer) and have an 80 APO for wider field.
For a cheap foray into videoastro a lot of people use (1) 6-8" f4/5 imaging newts (like the GSOs) on GOTO mounts. (2) 80-100mm achro refractors (see ken Dragonman’s advice on using those), even an ST80 gives beautiful wide-field video (on a manual mount). I'm told the problem here is you need an imaging newt to get it into focus - so that might make eyepieces difficult.
To get video and EPs maybe an SCT is good or a MAK. A few use 5-6” to great effect.
The big boys use 8-10" SCTs on ALTAZ with heavy focal reduction or hyperstar and get amazing stuff. But they are also using $1.5-2k cameras such as the Ultrastar, Infinity, ASI1600 etc. Watch some of their live broadcasts.


DSOs a killer with video - full beautiful colour pics as Alex showed. Big nebulae great, galaxies take a while to sort out but great.
Moon is fun with video.
But planets - stick to your eyepieces. Have sent a PM.

Cheers Chris

[CrazyGiza]

Wow, awesome info chris.
I'll have my afternoon full now.
Thankyou very much...off to research...n check your pm.
cheers
clear skies

[eskimo20]

Beau

You “can” do video astronomy without a computerised goto mount. But it will be a much more pleasant experience if you get one.


A lot of the stuff you want to look at is below naked eye visibility and if you are using a 1/3” CCD camera (as most of us are) you will end up with quite a small field of view.


You can buy a Skywatcher Star Discovery Pro Alt/Az Mount (computerised/goto) for about $600 that will hold a 6kg payload.


https://www.myastroshop.com.au/products/sw-mount.asp


Furthermore, you don’t need a large aperture for video. Many people use 80mm refractors (like Chris) and get excellent results.



Cheers
Robert

[astroron]

I find the idea of video astronomy distressing, :sadeyes:
To think of sitting out under a beautiful night and having a telescope
connected to a TV screen just makes me want to give up astronomy.:(
Lazy astronomy, may as well just do astro imaging.
Or even better buy or download some Hubble or other telescope images
and you will be able to sit inside and watch it in comfort on your big screen.
Cheers:thumbsup:

[ChrisV]

If i can view things with an 80mm scope that others can't see with something four times as big I'd call that exciting. And do it as quick as it takes someone to look, avert etc.

Its nothing like astrophotography. It happens right there as you watch. BUT never mind ... each to their own ...

Cheers Chris

[eskimo20]

Ron

The reason I don't download Hubble images is same reason that you don't download grainy images shot with TP2415 and processed in Dektol.

And you may be surpised to know that cameras and screens can be turned off.

[CrazyGiza]

Great info guys.

Technology should be weighed on its merits, if i can grab some colour that my eye is too pathetic too see, but can with the aid of some tech, so be it.

Im now thinking i'll end up with two (yeah sure, just 2) scopes. A big dob to see what i can with some arranged glass and my eye. And video dedicated scope.

While I'm still using a walking stick and pain killers, the cheapest way into astro vid OBSERVATION is my first goal.

No scope, no camera and a slow laptop.

Too night at late to think now, if anyone is bored and wants to surf a cheap scope and camera that would get me rollin', feel free to drop me some suggestions. I just went lookin at $1200-$2400 refractors, but if a lot cheaper sct or mak will do, I'll go that way. (Sick of not being able to work and earn $$$).

Oh, how important for a refractor to be ED or doublet (?), if i go that way?

[skysurfer]

YES, because I like those beautiful dark skies as well. Living in the most light polluting (and often cloudy) country, viewing a real dark sky like I did recently in South Africa (and even in much closer France) is amazing. No screen or Oculus Rift with an astronomy app can beat this, how high resolution it has. Thatis why I stress upon importance of keeping as much dark sky locations on Earth as possible.

NO, because when one *is* in a light polluted area (e.g. Sydney CBD or, worse, Dubai with its hazy skies and LOTS of LP) an electronic eyepiece can reveal real time images with a small scope.

I expect that in the 2020s electronic eyepieces or cameras fitting in a 1.25" or 2" socket exist and are affordable for the amateur. It will use partly the same technology as night vision goggles and have super sensitive sensors. These devices send one or more times a second frames (wirelessly) to a tablet or smartphone which processes the images with stacking and allow real time viewing of faint Halpha nebulas in full color. A kind of 'real time astrophotography'.

Putting an optional coordinate grid and / or an arrow on the screen to point to the desired object would be no problem as accelerometer, inclinometer and GPS technology is no problem. So old scopes without goto and only manual control can easily be 'pushed to' with help of such a device.

These devices allow viewing much fainter objects with a given aperture so such a device used on a small 80mm scope will reveal many faint deepsky objects from an apartment balcony close to Sydney CBD.
And when locatied in a Bortle 0 location it will reveal even more and when a 40+cm Dob is used one can peep almost as deep in to universe as Hubble does now.

The only technology to overcome is the elimination of luminous screens which makes current smartphones almost unreadable in sunlight and too bright during night and replacement by transreflective displays, i.e. very dim (red) in the dark and fully reflective with enough ambient light.

No, these devices won't replace straight optical viewing but just coexist beside it, just like astrophotography does. AP did not beat visual observing despite it reveals MUCH more.

[CrazyGiza]

Wow, a thread to discuss this topic and the webmasters allow astroron to come along and call a cripple LAZY!

no wonder this place is dead. He should be banned for those comments, and his troll like behaviour on a video assist Thread. Anyone interested that reads his AllKnowingOpinion will not jion this dying community either....

Goodbye iceinspace, i mentioned my disability and you Allowed trollery and slander... Shame on you moderaters.:shrug:

[ChrisV]

+1 CrazyGiza. The attitude is a bit sad really.

One might even say "lazy". The post you refer to is unnecessary and unhelpful. It's a throw away line from someone who knows nothing about what we are doing.

Well there are great astro video forums out there as you have more recently found.

Cheers. Chris

PS I enjoyed my viewing last night of some great southern nebulae and galaxies. In colour and in real time. With my video camera.

[Kunama]

I don't think he was calling a cripple "lazy", I think he was expressing his opinion that video astronomy was in his view 'lazy astronomy', not looking through the eyepiece with my own eyes would seem to be wasteful to me as well.
I note also that a few days ago he posted four posts advising you about astronomy and also offering to sell to you a scope at a pretty good price. He also offered for you to ring him to discuss scopes etc.

Ron is actually one of the most helpful people on here with lots of experience...
I think the shame is your 'over the top' response, when most would just agree to disagree....

[astroron]

I have never seen your post mentioning you had a disability,But neither did I call you lazy, I said video astronomy is lazy astronomy,(please don't put words into my mouth)
I offered you lots of help and advice, not once did you mention me saying about lazy astronomy, Now you come out all indignant wit a mouthful od disgust, so be it I will not offer any advice to you again, and as far as I am concerned you can do what you like.
I went out of my Way for you and am not impressed at your protest.
Good bye, you will not be missed, at least by me.

[CrazyGiza]

I see Explore Scientific are getting ready to release some New 100 series triplet refractors in a month or so...better glass...might be great to get a review from someone who Enjoys vidastro and has played with a few different breeds, doublet v triplet, built in field flattener v reducer etc etc.

A little wary of the skywatcher ed80... only a couple of Lazy hunj more for a triplet worth it?

[CrazyGiza]

I have seen some mixed reviews on the Esprit sky watcher range. A little more pricey and have heard of collimation probs and vignetting, but supposedly fixed now. But it is worthwhile making sure the place you buy from understands the importance of stock rotation. Especially when manufacturers change little things half way through production...
hey chrisV...it could save heaps of grief. You dont want to be lumped with the bottom box when such issues have arisen such as with the 2014 Esprit 80's

[CrazyGiza]

Has anyone tried a Vixen refractor with a CAMERA jammed up it? I didn't really look at the scope i spotted, i was chasing info on their Eyepieces, but THAT is NOT for THIS THREAD.
I might hit up the search engine seeing as my collapsed ankle wont let me sleep tonight and its a bit blowy n cold out tonight.

Cheers vidastro lovers n brothers, chime in if you have CAM'd any of the three scopes i have just mentioned...you know, in the name of Promoting and encouraging positive conversation in and of a subject we are here to DISCUSS(not DEFEND).

[CrazyGiza]

Hey chrisV, i think you mention an sct you had probs with because of focal length...did you see the conversion lens to turn them into supersonic F2 fast scopes? A couple places in the states were advertising the conversion between 4hunj up to 1k...pricey experiment but they make em just to speed the scopes up, so... could be interesting

Beau

[CrazyGiza]

The main reason i have been looking at the EX SCI and Esprit is focal length.
they both are 80mm aperture same as Skywatcher ed80 but only 480mm focal legnth....quicker off the bat. Low f ratios are the name of the game, so better quality glass, configuration and focal length... win win win. And its nice to have something a little different, the skywatcher ed80 looks alright and by all accounts is great for vidastro, but sometimes a few extra pennies upfront saves a fistfull of dollars later...
the rev im kit comes with a .5 focal reducer, just a cheapie no doubt, but the one search i did for reducers came back 3hunj plus for .85 in aus, wow, we get screwed by bricknmortar here... and yes rent, staff blah blah... the Markup is still rediculous to what the get em for...

So another reason i am looking elsewhere for my next scope... (and the 120x600 i brought new and unopened has Fine white Grit on main lens...so did barlowx2 and it scratched ridiculously easy with one wipe...so haven't touched scopes main lens...i'll bush mechanic an adapter for vacuum to suck those off or lens pen them failing that. I sent tasco an email about it, just for their Quality Control for future, but I'll leave the brand behind i think... a dirty factory is a dirty factory and all advice says Don't clean, but the specs are Very apparent on rev im screen, not to the eyeball though)

Clear skies peeps, beau.

Ps, i know Esprit is skywatcher so it is nearly struck off my list anyway...unless tasco send a lenspen and replacement barlow, but id be Not happy if a 2k scope had the 'grit' my 5hunj cheapie came with...
almost like they know a newb would give it a wipe and scratch it...

[csb]

I've got a Celestron c8 with a. 63 focal reducer. Used with DSO1 camera and 7" lcd monitor. Very easy setup. I haven't had time to look at DSO's but this combo works great on planets n moon.

Post #110, Ron's, has been reported. So vicious to post that. Mods this is not his first attack either. Please warn him. Please also delete his post #102 - surely this is trolling, with desired effect!

[ChrisV]

CrazyGiza

Will pm you about the scopes.

Chris

[ChrisV]

I would also like to comment about the "lazy astronomy" comment as it is getting a bit semantic. Lets not beat around the bush, I would suggest that if you say that someone is doing lazy astronomy then:
- you are actually suggesting that they are being lazy in their approach to astronomy.
- putting the word lazy in a post about what someone is doing is pretty derogatory.

It is also really unclear as to why it is lazy astronomy ??

1. We are using a form of technology to boost what we can see. If that's the case then why isn't astrophotography lazy astronomy. Can you explain the difference. They are all just different types of astronomy.

2. When does the use of technology make astronomy lazy ?
When we started using digital cameras for astrophotography ?
When new glass types, or eyepieces were developed ?
When cassegrains were developed ?
When newtonians were developed ?
OR, are you saying that the use of video cameras is the only lazy form of astronomy ?


I would also suggest that video astronomy is just a new form of technology that allows you to do things that you CANNOT do through an eyepiece.

- Last night I was able to observe several nebulae and galaxies in colour with great detail using exposures in less than a minute (3 - 10x 5sec subs etc). This was all done on an 80mm refractor.

- Can you do this with an eyepiece. I would suggest not.

It is particularly good for DSOs, not so good for planetary where at present I would still use an eyepiece.
Friends in the USA tell me it is also excellent for outreach.

What makes any of this lazy ?

[RB]

Ron's entitled to his opinion guys.
He wasn't attacking anyone personally or in particular in his first post and was defending his first post in his next reply.

I wasn't offended and I'm an astro imager, LOL.

Let's get back on topic.

:)

[ChrisV]

From last night's fun.
1min exposures on 80mm refractor as captured on an ASI224 camera with sharpcap.

It ain't astrophotography, but its viewed in near real time. And in my light polluted Sydney skies with the moon rising at 1am

[RB]

Chris if you stack a few of those you'll get a nice photo. :poke:

Actually they're better than some astro-images I've seen. :)

Must look very nice on screen.

:thumbsup:

[csb]

Chris, what camera are you thinking about?

Cloudynights is a good place for user reviews of astrovideo cameras.

The dso1 gets good reviews. I really need to make time to learn how to use on faint dso's.

The dso1 & Revolution camera are both well priced.

[ChrisV]

They are jpegs from fits files so much better on screen. And they get really nice when you go out to 4-6min stacks (which is long for video astro).

Not like astrophotos - the stuff I see in that part of the forum is gob smackingly beautiful. But for me (only been doing astronomy for 8 months now) its great being out there late at night viewing it 'near live' and watching the image form with successive 5-10sec sub in a stack. LOL about about stacking for a nice image - I'm still really crap at setting up and aligning an EQ mount.

[5ash]

Video astronomy is very helpful to those like myself who have had eye operations leading to lumps of vitreous humour ( not a pun) floating in their vision. Small exit pupil views through a telescope at high magnification gives a view with moving tentacular bodies in the field. Then at the other extreme severe astigmatism causes itscown viewing problems. All of these problems are overcome with the enhanced views of a video camera and video screen. I know of lunar observers who find it helpful to draw lunar pictures using video capture devices.
Philip

[RB]

Well Chris we all go through that stage, until, with a bit of practice, it all 'clicks' into place and then you're on a slippery slide.
That's the best time to take up stamp collecting...:lol:

[ChrisV]

CSB

This was going to be short, but ...

I started with the LN300 as mentioned by Alex previously. In fact it was Alex's images that got me started with this. Ended up getting the revolution imager as I couldn't source a good LN300 camera on aliexpress etc. The LN300 in various forms uses a really sensitive 1/3" CCD chip but as we all know CCDs are being phased out by the manufacturers. These analog are great if you are just using a screen to monitor things. But if you want to put it on a computer and stretch images on the fly you have to use a frame grabber - and these are really poor resolution.

I've been on the CN-EAA forum for a while and it is really informative. But discussions there get a lot more robust than here at times.

- The great USB cameras are expensive so I went for the zwo ASI224MC - after I read Astrojedi's testing of it on that forum. It was only about $500 from Bintel (can I mention vendors?) so is also a great starter. Its reasonably sensitive. And the good thing is its really low read noise so you can stack a pile of short subs. Its still just a 1/3" chip but I use massive focal reduction (x0.33 - 0.75) for a faster image and wider FOV. And it works seamlessly with sharpcap.

- The best 'tried and tested' cameras for astro video currently are the Atik Infinity and the Starlight Express Ultrastar (or even the lodestar X2). These both have really good, easy to use software - which is a must for this stuff. They are very sensitive and have a slightly larger 1/2" format chip. They cost 3x as much as my 224, but if you have the $$ they are worth it. I'll get one of these when I've had a year or so with my 224 (or otherwise whatever is the new big thing). Check out the images in CN-EAA forum, or watch the live broadcasts on nightskiesnewtork.com.

- The current one they are getting excited about is the zwo1600. But there's not a lot of testing on it yet as only a few people in the USA have them. There's also a long thread about it here in the astrophotography forum - but I don't think anyone has actually used one yet ??

So it depends on whether you want to
1. just use a monitor - then analog camera is best.
2. Want to use a computer - then the usb cameras are better.
3. Also people use digital cameras to great effect. My son has a canon 600d which I've 'borrowed' a few times.

And with the latter, while the camera is king, its the combination of camera and software that is important. AND focal redcuers !!! I have a nice little x0.5 that came with the rev imager. But mainly use a x0.33 Meade, or Optec and vary spacing to change reduction. Yes, you get vignetting and you get coma but it don't matter for my needs on a small chip.

The rev imager is a good entry. Beware the DSO1 as of vendor issues - I won't say more, but it won't take long for you to figure out the issues on the CN forum. I mostly use the analog camera when I go down the park with just scope, camera and monitor AND at home the USB camera with computer.

Chris

[csb]

Yes, the dso1 vendor has some delivery issues. My purchase was smooth except for a months delay in being posted - the vendor gave several lame excuses.

I like to be able to just hook up to a monitor so analogue camera instead of digital.

[csb]

I've seen images taken with the Afinity camera and WOW! Although I'm not sure if the images are live screenshots.

My camera setup is:
DSO1 with bluetooth control
7" LCD monitor 800x480
Camera to monitor cable
Camera power cable
Monitor power cable

Quick n easy to setup and start viewing. I post some screenshots when I've fot the hang of camera settings. DSO's are faint and need some camera adjustments to get an image.



Beau, I got your message. You are certainly correct. Others on here would also agree. Anyway, there's not many like that on here though.

[ChrisV]

No way, I've got too short an attention span. And that suits video astronomy.
;)

[AG Hybrid]

Just ordered a Revolution Imager Kit R2 + the USB connection kit so I can use it with the included 7" monitor or my Surface 3.

Ill tell you all about how awesome it is after it arrives.

[ChrisV]

Adrian

Well done. Menu controls look simpler than the old one. Enjoy !

Chris

[AG Hybrid]

Well the kit arrived. Packed beautifully and came with a bespoke case and foam cutouts. Nice! Took about 10 min to figure out how it works and to configure. But so it goes, so came the clouds. Hopefully Ill get a chance to use it next week.

[AG Hybrid]

Ok. Got a couple hours with it last night from the central west of Sydney under a near full moon. I was using the kit with my AR102 with a .5 reducer. Effective f ratio of 3.2.
I was very impressed with how well it performed. With the IR filter it cut through alot of the LP. Centaurus A showed more detail with this setup the my 12" has ever showed me at a dark sky site.
The moon is sitting in Sagittarius right now so I stayed away from that area. Exception being M4 which turned out really well. Being able to look at globulars and some galaxies in colour in the conditions is outstanding.

[mental4astro]

Ahhh, another convert, :D

Welcome, brother Adrian, :welcome:

[AG Hybrid]

My only real criticism of the kit is that the brightness of the 7 inch screen seems to have the power of 1000 suns aaaannnnnddddd it would have been good if the power cable divider between the screen and camera were longer. Maybe twice as long.

[AG Hybrid]

All in all a fun, new endeavor to enjoy in this hobby.

[OffGrid]

Thank you Adrian for posting re the RI.

I have been procrastinating for some time as to which EAA gear to get for an outreach in a couple of months.
Whilst I would like to get the Atik Infinity or similar ilk, it's cost and the additional cost of getting a Windows laptop just does not add up in my current financial pool.
So a question for you and any other in this space, would the Revolution Imager be compatible with my LX 90 ACF 8" goto as I understand from my research that an 'appropriate, focal reducer is a must have?

I have a digital data projector that will be image projecting means and I suspect that I may also have to deal with a brightish image.

[mental4astro]

Hi Steve,

The Revolution Imager is great with an 8" SCT like yours. I use my camera regularly with my C8.

A focal reducer is not a "must have" with SCT's. It is a big help though as the field of view given by the camera in a 2000mm focal length scope is small. A focal reducer will increase the field of view seen by the chip.

A good focal reducer to use with it is that inexpensive 1.25" 0.5X reducer that winds into the end of eyepieces like a filter - it isn't really meant for using with eyepieces, but the turn of phrase is meant as a descriptor. One thing about the reducer is the further you set it away from the sensor chip, the wider the FOV it provides, but this in turn can mean more in-travel for the camera - not such a problem with an SCT.

If you have a short tube barlow lens, you can see how you go by replacing the barlow lens itself from the tube, and replacing it with the focal reducer. The camera you fit into the barlow tube as you would an eyepiece. This would pretty much give you the widest field of view possible with an 8" SCT. Depending on what other extension tubes you have lying about, you can experiment with different combinations and see what works best.

The focal reducer I mentioned above is not an optical match for Newtonians. The image this reducer with produce with a Newt is abysmal. It will work well with refractors too, though the faster the refractor the more challenging for the focal reducer. If you are after a focal reducer for a Newtonian, Mallincam has one.

Alex.

[MattT]

Might have another in me too :eyepop: With a non-portable rig like mine the Revo 2 could be useful. So brother Adrian...reports please.

Whats the view like with a Achromatic Frac? Gotta a 10" Newt too.

Matt

[ChrisV]

If you got the Rev Imager kit it comes with a x0.5 reducer. Ideal focal reduction with the small 1/3" ccd. I started with a C8. It was slow by itself but great with the FR. Plus the larger FOV was a good compromise between galaxies and other DSOs. The 6-8" SCTs are one of the most popular for EAA.

Plus you need the speed to counter field rotation on that scope.

Edit: if you wanted to go USB camera route there's the asi224 (i got one ). Much better resolution than R2 but not quite as sensitive. You'll find you might eventually go computer as stacking improves analog camera pics also. You can stretch and adjust black level live.. Also lodestar x2 (more expensive but more sensitive).

[OffGrid]

Thankyou Alex and Chris. I just need to bight the bullet now and get an order in.

Steve

[AG Hybrid]

The AR102 worked really well. With the IR filter and reducer the stars were rather small and pinpoint which is good. Also even at F3 the stars when in focus looked round at the edge of the image frame. When observing in "day" mode - essentially colour imaging I couldn't see any purple fringing. After about 3 images being stacked I could pick up individual star colours like orange. Bright blue stars tended to be white. I never noticed purple fringing even once.

Globular's are quite colourful. Tend to be orange in colour. But then, they would be as they are some of the oldest objects in our galaxy.
Naturally, Omega Centurai is amazing to look at. But, its those somewhat dimmer globs like M4 that are amazing. That apparent bar shaped of stars going across it is obvious and it out shined even the best my 12" could show at a very dark sky site.

At F3 the exposure times were so short that in those conditions I was hitting diminishing returns after the 3rd or 4th exposure. About 20 seconds worth. Probably due to the overwhelming light pollution robbing me of the more delicate details in images.

On a side note thanks to adjustable settings of the camera + the UV/IR filter the images were still dark in the back ground and not washed out at all. Even if the sky was light blue when I spent time on M4.

You can pull in a bit more contrast in your images if you image in "night" mode which is essentially black and white.

More to come. When the night is clear and the moon has chilled out a bit.

This is such a revelation for me in Astronomy that the contents of my eyepiece case is in serious jeopardy.

[ChrisV]

The AR102 at f3 sounds brilliant given that you got rid of star bloat.

[sharptrack2]

Been following this thread for awhile now and I recently acquired a ZWO AS1034MC camera. So the simple question is, would this camera work well enough, with SharpCap, to get started with experimenting with video observing and also some "happy snaps" (aligned and stacked) for the personal archives. My interest is speculative at the moment, just looking at alternatives for my extremely light polluted backyard observation spot. Astrophotography looks like fun but exceeds my budget and would quickly overwhelm my patience threshold ;) . This video approach looks like a reasonable compromise to help me with an idea I have about how I will continue my excursion into astronomy.

[ChrisV]

In the absence of expertise.

I don't know this camera but it sounds more planetary than anything else. So might not be sensitive enough. And Qus are
- what scope do you have (and mount)
- what do you want to observe - planets DSOs ...

One way or another you want FR low to start with otherwise difficult. Low FR scope or focal reduction.

You could just try what you have and see. Start with the moon then an easier target like a globular cluster - omega centauri.

[sharptrack2]

:thanx: for the reply Chris,

Link to camera details... https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/products/usb-2-0/asi034mc-color/ sorry I miss typed the model number :doh: .

I have 3 different telescopes to experiment with...

Celestron Astromaster 130 on an EQ3 mount with RA drive
Skywatcher SW708 on an EQ3 mount with RA drive
Celestron Celestar 8 on an HEQ5 mount

Ultimately, I simply want to document what I find along the way. Not interested in publishing super detailed colour photographs, more interested in the journey. As long as the camera will capture what I see visually (or close enough) I will be happy. The video observing aspect is appealing when its 2 am and near freezing, I can setup earlier when its warmer and then relax inside with a hot cuppa and peruse the galaxy, but that is a future wishlist project.

I realise the equipment I have is not optimal for any one objective, but for now I only want to get proficient with post processing and understanding the affects of FoV and focal length on how I capture my journey.

I don't have a focal reducer for the 8" SCT so it will probably be dedicated to planetary for now, this is my pride and joy until I get a larger aperture :P . The 5" newt has seen its better days, was my practice dummy for cleaning mirrors, collimating, general learning of optics :work:. The 70mm refractor was a cheap buy to get a feel for what a refractor looks like :nerd:.

I also have a couple of barlows to experiment with, X2 and X3, along with various filters, including a LP filter. There's no dedicated video monitor, will be a 13" laptop running Windows 10. I have already captured some video and have been trying to get something out of Registax 6 but have not been very successful. Just not getting the hang of how to configure the aligment step, too many things I don't know enough about, and have not been able to find explanations for easily. Been searching the forum but finding mostly specific fixes for specific problems, no general knowledge bases on the features and functions, is there a hidden forum page that you have to run barefoot through a thistle patch to get to? :shrug: ;) :D

So... to bring this novel to a close... any links would be greatly appreciated, because I'm not finding what will help me at the moment, as well as any further advice that comes to mind.

Oh... I'm already reading through Cloudy Nights, Video Astronomy forum, Stargazers lounge, and both ZWO and Registax websites. So much to try and sift through, so little time :( .

[OffGrid]

If you have not already done so Kevin, have a look at Ken James site for Video assisted observing
http://ballaratman.wix.com/videoastronomy

Steve

[sharptrack2]

Thnx Steve,

I've seen the name a couple of times in my wanderings on the web. I'll check it out in more detail.

[ChrisV]

Kevin

Hopefully you have an adaptor for the ASI034 to attach to these scopes. The problem is that this camera is a 1/4" CCD so its like using a ~6mm eyepiece. I would start with either the 130mm (a few people use this size reflector on a goto mount) or maybe the 70mm refractor. Then you'll have the lowest mag, largest FOV, and fastest image. You will find the C8 very difficult. Its better if you can eventually get in some focal reduction (and no barlows), we can talk about that later. It will also be slow going without a goto mount.

Forget about registax, use sharpcap. Then you can stack images while viewing and bring those images alive. Download it and give it a run during day to get used to it. As you have a ZWO camera sharpcap will let you control gain/exposure etc. Charles Copeland has a great youtube intro to it
http://www.cloudynights.com/topic/527935-sharpcap-27-stacking-video-primer-for-beginners/

I don't know your camera as I have the ASI224. But give it a bit of gain (~300) and some 5 - 15s exposures and see what you get. Start with some globular clusters. If there's ever an observing night up the coast I could come up (I'm near Hornsby so not that far away). I'll bring my gear, and you can try my camera/reducers etc.

Chris

[Stonius]

Interesting thread. I wonder if it's possible to stack images of DSO's captured from the video stream. Essentially applying a planetary work flow to DSO'S?

[sharptrack2]

Not sure, but this tutorial got me started...http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-306-0-0-1-0.html so I suppose with the right combination of camera and telescope, it should be possible.

[sharptrack2]

Yes I have a 1.25" nose piece.

I've been studying photography in parallel to get my head around the relationship between FoV as it relates to aperture, focal length, and CCD size. Not difficult to understand, just a challenge for me to put it all together. You'd think an electrical engineer who specialises in RF would not have a problem... :screwy: go figure!

The mount was tracking, just poorly, I have yet to successfully polar align so I always have some drift in declination, some nights worse than others. I didn't have the HEQ5 when I first used the camera.



I started out just trying out the camera to see what I was up against. I tried using the stacking feature in SharpCap but it complained and I gave up. Then I found the tutorial that Mike Salway put together to process a single image from a video and I tried to follow that and had alignment issues. I'll check out the YouTube link, thanks!



I was able to get some reasonably exposed videos of Saturn, but seeing was pretty mediocre, add in the tracking error and you get a bit of a mess. But I can show them off when people come over for BBQ's :lol: . It would be great to meet you, I'm slowly expanding my circle in the forum whenever possible. If you follow the NSW informal Astro Camping trips http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=141805 and the NSW Central Coast Casual Observing http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=141802 threads, you'll likely find me.

:thanx: again for all the advice and links.

[AG Hybrid]

So a quick little update. Had another session tonight. Also, connected my new Nexus-S unit so the EQ5 pro mount could be controlled via wireless through SkySafari on my phone. Brilliant that device. Just select the star or object on the star chart and press goto and away it goes. Great.

With the moon out of the way I was able to spend most of the evening around the central galaxy region. Naturally headed for the bright nebula's to see whats-what. Looking at the Lagoon and Trifid nebulas in colors of pink, red and blue in the case of the Trifid was truly wonderful. Spent some more time checking out some globs in color as well. Always interesting.

Highlight of the night was heading over to the Eagle nebula seeing the pinks and redish hues and positively identifying the Pillars of Creation! From a 4" cheap achromat in the center of Sydney. Truly astonishing.

[OffGrid]

Sounds like I have made the right decision Adrian.
I ordered my Revolution Imager R2 on Monday night.

Steve

[ChrisV]

Yes it certainly is. I use software such as sharpcap. Stack 5 -20sec shots from my usb camera and watch DSO images build up over a minute or two (as in my post #120). The stacking aligns so get nice images. It ain't astrophotography but its all there in color within a minute or two.

Sometimes i frame grab from my analog camera (similar to those that Steve & Adrian have) and stack those. But not like planetary - use 5-20s integration on camera similar to the usb

[ChrisV]

Stonius

An example of live aligning/stacking using sharpcap of the Lagoon Nebula on 25 July 6.20pm. These are captures during live viewing with no post-processing. Used an 80mm refractor (I think ~F4 with focal reduction) with the ASI224MC USB camera:

- the 1st is 1x 8sec exposure
- the 2nd is 24x 8sec exposures stacked using sharpcap
So I just sit there and watched the images stack. And tweak the histogram while viewing. I went out to a stack of 65x with this one, but for live viewing 8 - 32 is enough.

Chris

[Stonius]

I'm assuming this must be from an EQ mounted scope, otherwise 8 secs would surely trail the stars.

And if that's the case, I'm starting to think the distinction between video astronomy with stacked subs and actual astrophotography is vanishingly small. Am I missing something here?

Markus

[ChrisV]

I'm using an EQ mount. Had it before i started video. but many or even most video astro people use alt-az mounts as easier to setup (a few brave souls don't even use tracking mounts - but they are crazy). With short subs no star trails especially with short focal length scopes. Look here for shots by others
http://www.cloudynights.com/topic/144516-astro-video-image-gallery/page-170#entry7353729
Plus there's a thread above that with pics of the setups they use.

It aint astrophotography. Compare my lagoon to those in the astrophotography threads - they get much more detail and lower noise. But this is live and in colour.

I wouldn't recommend video to someone just starting astro. The camera is an extra learning curve. And your scope dictates what sort of objects you can see.

[OffGrid]

My Revolution Imager R2 arrived yesterday ( Tuesday ) but I was not home to collect so picked it up from the local PO today.
It was ordered on Monday evening AEST last week. Not lost in transit and in good shape.
Well done Tim Fowler of Orange County Telescope, USPS and of course OzPost.
With particular special thanks to Deb for my early birthday prezzy.

Given the cloud cover that arrived in advance, it may be a little while before Deb and I are getting first light on DSO's.

Will give some feedback when I get this little cam visual in the LX90.

Steve

[Howard]

Hey Kevin (post #152) FOV for any camera in a scope is very close to ...

60
---------------------------------------
(FL of scope / Sensor biggest mm)

The important thing is you do not have to be precise at all in the calc. Nearest roundings works just as well.

Examples ...

APS/C Canon sensor is 22.2mm x 14.8mm so the biggest mm dimension is 22.2mm. If your scope is 1000mm focal length then 1000 is easily divided if we round 22.2mm down to 20. So 1000/20 = 50. Then 60 / 50 is 1.2 degrees FOV.

If a sensor was 8mm on the longest edge then 1000mm FL / 8 is roughly 120, so the FOV is 60 / 120 = 0.5 degrees.

cheers

[sharptrack2]

Thanks Howard,

So my 8" SCT with the ASI034MC camera (1/4" sensor) would have a FoV of 0.19 degrees. Which explains why a telescope higher than F7 or 8 usually isn't used without a reducer. Planets would be the only thing you could video with any chance of a good image to work with.

And adding a 2X barlow would only make that worse...

[Beatlejohn]

Hey guys...
Im interested in getting into video astronomy. I recently bought a 6" skywatcher dob... had it 2 weeks then decided it was too hard finding stuff so i upgraded to a 10" skywatcher goto dob. Havent had much of a chance to use it yet cos the clouds have arrived cos i bought a new scope :lol:

So I have read most of this thread and like the look of the revolution imager kit but just wanted to make sure it would be ok to use with my goto dob?
I wanna be able to see some nice dso's and maybe take a snapshot of it if i feel like.

[ChrisV]

Only just saw this. I think your question got answered really well on AVF.

[Bob]

TRUE VIDEO ASTRONOMY


VIDEO ASTRONOMY IS EXCELLENT FOR PEOPLE WITH POOR EYE SIGHT , TO COMBAT LIGHT POLLUTION, TO SEE DEEPER INTO SPACE THAN YOU CAN WITH YOUR EYES, AND IS PERFECT FOR OUTREACH PROGRAMS.
True video astronomy in my opinion is intergration of no more than 60 seconds, I mostly use 7 to 14 seconds or less.
In other words as close to real time as possible.
I only use software to control camera settings ,.
I do not use software to enhance the on screen picture.
I feed the cables from the cameras directly to the CRT 14” televisions so you see exactly what the camera sees without software enhancements.
At this time, I believe CCD cameras are more sensitive than CMOS cameras , which rely on software to enhance the image, which I believe is more Astrophotography than Live Video astronomy.
I only use Mallincam CCD cameras as I believe they are the best, and I have used various other makes.
I use a Mallincam Xtreme colour camera and a Mallincam Xterminator Mono camera.
They are both very sensitive cameras and work very well in my very heavy light polluted area.
A WORD OF WARNING ONCE YOU GET INTO TRUE VIDEO ASTRONOMY YOU WILL NOT USE YOUR EYE PIECES ANY MORE.

[AG Hybrid]

Well thanks for that Bob. But, I think the liberal use of your capslock keys was unecessary.

[Bob]

I have been a video astronomer for 15 years, just trying to help with information.
I thought the context of the message would be more important rather than a couple of sentences in capitals .
Adrian I am not interested in NEGATIVE comments, it does not help anyone.

[Stonius]

Some people use Caps for emphasis, like italics. TBH, it doesnt bother me, but since for most folks it's reads as obnoxious screaming I tend to avoid it for the sake of peaceable communication.

This has been a really interesting thread full of good information, both in upper and lower case. I hope there will be more to come.

Cheers
Markus

[ChrisV]

Yes great stuff. I'd like to hear from people with experience using cameras like the ultrastar and infinity with their respective software.

There was a great broadcast today on NSN with someone using a cooled atik414 with astrotoaster.

[mental4astro]

For the sake of camaraderie, we should remember that cameras like the Revolution Imager, represents just the modest price end of things. Like everything else, how deep are your pockets does enter into the equation. Then things like the pros and cons of CMOS vs CCD can be discussed, and only with understanding.

And we have not even begun to talk about the Avalanche CCD chips that Panasonic is developing that will leave ALL our current cameras looking like box brownies...

Chris, I agree that it would be great to hear about the results people are getting with other cameras. I'd also like to hear about how they use Video Astronomy. With this last point, for me it is as an outreach tool under light polluted skies, and really only to compliment the visual experience that people want from using scope, but that light pollution robs them of. Bob's post is important too where he is one person with limited mobility and now compromised vision, and video still allows him to enjoy the night sky as closely to a visually exclusively experience as he can achieve without the complications of post processing. Had one's fill for the night, and then just shut down everything, happy as Larry.

Alex.

[ChrisV]

Agreed. Love both my revolution imager for quick looks on the monitor and USB for stacking. Both have their place in the wonderful world of video(ish) astronomy.

And the avalanche sounds interesting !

[ChrisV]

Hopefully broadcasting tonight on
Nightskiesnetwork.com

Starting about 7-8pm. Using 80mm
Refractor ASI224 sharpcap.

[eskimo20]

I use video as an aid for observing and usually connect my analogue camera to a 20” analogue colour TV. I have found this to a no-fuss way of getting very good views.


But there are times when it would be nice to get a snap-shot of the on-screen images.


When I have used an analogue to digital converter the resulting images have been very poor compared to what I can see on my analogue screen.


Recently I have been tinkering with the Live Stack function in SharpCap as demonstrated by ChrisV on his ZWO digital camera earlier in this thread. I find that a short Live Stack does produce a digital image that is close to what I see on the analogue screen.


The first image is a photograph of the TV screen. It’s blurred because the shutter speed was too slow for a hand-held shot but it gives an idea of what I would like to be able to capture.


The other images are straight out of the camera with a 3 minute Live Stack then saved as a single .png frame. No further processing.


(Bresser 5” achromat + Fringe Killer operating at about f4.8. Revolution Imager 811 chip.)

[5ash]

The second helix pic looks quite good . It only lacks the blue seen in the single shot. Perhaps this could be brought out by processing in photoshop. It seems to look more realistic and detailed than the single frame. I'd be very pleased capturing that stack with the equipment you are using.
Regards philip

[eskimo20]

Hi 5ash

Thanks

Yes I was disappointed in the digital image of the Helix.

I expected some loss from the camera at the blue end because of the Fringe Killer but obviously the information is there in the analogue image.

Anyway I'll keep tinkering...

[ChrisV]

Nice stuff Robert. That ring neb is showing better colour than i get with the zwo. If you want to fiddle your pics a bit after get fitswork. It's free and you can do some stretching on the RGB separately.

As sharpcap doesn't let you adjust colours separately while stacking its worth sorting out the colour balance of your camera. With my RI i just shoot a sheet of white paper in daylight, watch the rgb histograms in sharpcap and adjust the RGB channels in the camera or in sharpcap. If you do it in sharpcap then you can save that configuration.

That's the only trouble with using the RI with sharpcap - the a/d converters have low resolution. less than what comes out of the camera.

[eskimo20]

Chris
Thanks for the tip on colour balancing the camera. I have been pondering how to do that. At the moment I'm just doing it by eye on the TV screen.

[AEAJR]

I recently joined the Video Astronomy or Electronically Assisted Astronomy, EAA, as it is sometimes called.

I picked up a Revolution Imager R2 kit. I know it has been discussed here. I bought it because it is a ready to go kit for beginners that is easy to set-up and use. I have only started to work with it but so far it has been great.

Video Astronomy – Reveloution Imager R2 – Ordered this one
http://www.revolutionimager.com/

The thing I like about it is that you don't need a computer, it includes the monitor. But if you want to attach to a computer there is an adapter that will let you capture the video feed as digital frames for post processing if you want. But that is an optional step.

Not here to pitch for the product. Just telling you my current level of involvement.

In my opinion this really needs some kind of tracking mount. I guess you can use it on a manual mount but I don't think it really lives up to its potential that way unless you have really smooth slow motion controls and want to constantly turn them.

I have an 8" Orion XT8i and I have tried the set-up with that. This is a manual scope, no motor tracking. Camera came to focus but this will not be my target set-up for this system. I report my experience here:
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=148068&page=2

I will be using a Meade ETX 80 Goto as my video astronomy set-up. This is a short FL (400 mm) 80 mm refractor. I attach a photo of the set-up I am using. Monitor is on the left and battery is on the right. The white shelf I built myself. It just hangs off the tripod and provides a place to put things which comes in handy.

The goal is for the camera, monitor and battery to ride with the mount as I slew and track. Meade says the weight should be no problem as the mount is also useable with DSLRs hanging off the back which I would expect to put much more load on the mount than this.


If this works out as I expect then the ETX 80 will become my video telescope and my XT8i will become my visual telescope. At some point I may add a laptop for capture and image post processing but that is not what I am planning to do now.

Based on what I have seen so far I will continue to enjoy both forms of astronomy.

[Tinderboxsky]

Set up is looking good Ed. I shall interested to read your observing reports and impressions.

Cheers

Steve.

[silv]

This video astronomy thing is CRYING for a VR headset.
You know? To get the really immersive feeling during observing that you - I think - only get when looking through binoculars?

You can not get that by staring at a backlit monitor an arms length away from your eyes and with the table top, the carpet, the dog, the partner and other things being in your conscious perception all the time.

I haven't entered the realm of VR and never put on a headset, either.

But they are already working with smartphones as in: you put your smartphone INTO the headset, start an VR-enabled app -
then put the headset on and look into it.

Just imagine how THAT would feel when the feed for the headset were the actual camera feed from your telescope...

Can't be too difficult to engineer. I wonder if astro companies have something like that in their pipeline?

[silv]

I'm glad if it doesn't exist, yet.
Would be one more ultimate thing I yearn for and can not afford.

But because I'm a masochist I just emailed the guys from Revolution. :D

[ChrisV]

Another great thing .

I've seen pictures of people doing out reach on the street. They have a mini projector pointing to the ground - either on a road or a white sheet. So the live image is about 1or2 sq metres.

It's looks awesome. Saw one of M42. Another of the moon where kids could literally walk on the moon !!

That's outreach

Edit: link to pics
http://www.cloudynights.com/topic/434004-this-is-sidewalk-video-astronomy/#entry7477753

[silv]

awe, that's grrrreat!
and they're cheap as, these mini projectors.
since it's dark anyway, the low lumen capacity is meaningless, as well.

I use a projector at home for watching movies.
Sometimes, I project the image onto the ceiling while in bed.
Made me think of severely immobilized persons and how they can benefit from this.

[ChrisV]

I've taken up on Howie's approach of using modified DSLRs (450D, 550D) for near-live viewing. He uses EOS utilities to capture and astrotoaster to do live stacking. You can pre-load flats and darks if needed (I"ve been doing this on my SCT when using focal reducers as the vignetting is significant).

Here's two shots on my refractor from earlier this month. 60sec exposures stacked 4 - 6 times in astrotoaster. These are the live saved shots, no post-processing (other than squeezing into jpgs). You generally see the image after the 1st exposure, anything extra is bonus noise reduction. I thought you would have to, but you don't need to push the ISO too hard - these were iso1600.

Lagoon/Trifid and dumbell

[mental4astro]

Gorgeous images there Chris :)

[mental4astro]

I've run into some difficulties with my LN300 camera. I thought I had under control its tendency to convert dim colour images into b&w. But the material I had on its controls I now find I can't stop this from happening. Bit frustrating really. Makes me feel like I'm back at square one.

I've found that the good folks at Revolution Imager have the instructions for their Mk1 cameras on their web site. I've been reading over it and have found more ways to improve image quality with the LN300, giving me more ways on figuring out how to tame the colour again with this camera.

I guess too that much of the frustration I feel comes from not using it enough so despite the notes I have, I forget some of the background material too. I'll take the poor seeing conditions we currently have to experiment some more. Not a good look at an outreach night if I'm struggling with the camera, :rolleyes:

Alex.

[ChrisV]

Alex
Thanks. And I seem to remember that it will go b/w if it's in night mode . Needs to be day mode. Hope that works.
Chris

[Malcolm]

I recently bought a Revolution R2, still struggling with all the settings. I managed to get a reasonable daytime view of the Moon a few days back, which boosted my confidence somewhat. Now it's cloudy for the next few days.

[eskimo20]

Chris
Nice work. Those large sensors certainly provide a different perspective.

I have had a rush of blood and bought one of Steve Massey's G-Star Ex3 digitals. If the clouds ever go away I'll post some pics.

I haven't delved into the electronics but I suspect it might be similar to your ZWO.


Malcom
I have a Rev 1 with the ICX811 chip. If you want to contact me off-list I'm happy to talk about the settings I use.

Cheers
Robert (eskimo20@bigpond.net.au)

[mental4astro]

Chris, believe it or not, the day and night modes have very little to do with the default of dim images going from colour to black and white. Yes, the mode needs to be in "day" to have colour, but in this case the colour reverts to black and white, and I can't remember the setting that needed adjusting. Ken James had mentioned this too in his discussions about the LN300. Silly thing on my part is that I thought I had noted it in my set of notes on the camera, :rolleyes: :ashamed: :lol:

[ChrisV]

Robert
That'll be interesting. So another 224 based camera with the ZWO and Altair. I'd like to see some darks to what the amp glow is like on it. And see what their software is like . great to see an Aussiecmakers into it !
Chris

[ChrisV]

Alex
Damn. I thought that would be it . There was always talk about this problem but i thought it was mainly on the ntsc version. Is there a factory reset.
At least you make notes. I never do - and regret it later.
Chris

[mental4astro]

Mal, good on ya for picking up the R2. Totally different camera from the R1 as the R1 and all the LN300 variants have been discontinued. Real bummer as the LN300 a very effective camera, though tricky camera for astro as it wasn't a purpose made item.

The R2 has similar features, and it has been modified more for purpose than the LN300. I'm curious to know how you go with it.

Chris, yes, it has a factory reset. That's the problem - I hit the reset button, and because of the changes I had done to it previously to get it working, along with my own stuff ups that I hadn't been diligent enough to keep a record of all the changes, the reset has wiped EVERYTHING I had changed, :lol: . I'm really having to reinvent the wheel now! :doh::rolleyes::whistle::P All is not lost as I do remember that it was just a couple settings that needed adjusting, but they are obscure settings - that's the trick. Without those settings, the LN300 is just a stubborn beastie. I came to those settings after reading numerous posts on the LN300, which along with the experience I had with the camera, made it clear what I had to alter. But something got lost in translation and my notes were not extensive enough... Oh well...

Alex.

[mental4astro]

LN300 Instructions and Parameters

Hi folks,

For those of you with one of the LN300 cameras obtained directly from China, you will be more than familiar with how terrible the instructions are, and how difficult it is to control for our Astro purposes.

Some people have a handle on controlling it, but the information they pass on is often lacking somewhere or another, making for incomplete help. Making things even more complicated is the range of parameters that need to be altered depending on the object being videoed, and keeping tabs on all the changes.

I've fallen into this trap all too often, the latest being the camera's tendency to default a colour image to black and white with low illumination objects. A real pain in the bum.

Thankfully the good people of Revolution Imager have posted a set of camera instructions and parameters for this camera which they used as their first stock camera. The instructions talk ONLY about those settings which affect astro, which is really what we want - all the other settings do not affect astro imaging, such as Privacy, Motion detection, etc. AND at the end of the camera menu guide is a set of parameter settings which are most effective for different objects, such as the Moon, Planets, and bright & dim DSO's. The instructions include both camera menu versions:

LN300 Instructions and Paremeters from Revolution Imager (https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1002/1650/files/RevolutionImagerManual.pdf)

Colour control

This aspect of the LN300 is the trickiest, and is controlled not just with setting the camera to "Day" mode, but also through Gamma, Gain and Brightness settings. And of course dependent on the object brightness. And then too exposure time also is a factor if not long enough or too long. BUGGER! Just when you thought it was now safe to go back in the water... :rolleyes: :lol:

NOTE: Light pollution is a big factor in image quality, colour and contrast. With some familiarity of the camera, this becomes less of a problem.

~x.X.x~

Armed with the Revolution Imager instructions and the notes I had made over time, the other night I had another shot with my LN300 with my little DVD player monitor coupled to my eq platform mounted 8" f/4 dobbie, which is why I don't have screenshots to share (photo below is from several months ago). But...

OMG! What a difference this made! Finally not only was the colour stable, but I also had the finest control over the entire camera, and was getting the most outstanding image on my kids' DVD player :D 47 Tuc and M42 were ablaze on the screen, with wonderful colour, and the most lovely of subtle variations in 'smokiness' in M42. HOORAY! Now to tackle some galaxies. I'll also have another go at the Horse Head nebula, as I know this camera can pick it out from my home here in Sydney. I will try to get screenshots of these as I go, :rolleyes: :lol:

[Howard]

Sent a pm to Mike Salway re setting up a forum for EAA ... no rules re exposure times and number stacked ... just simple single rule ... if you use an elec device to view an image processed however you like out in-field at the time of observing with absolutely no tweaking of the image done after you pack up the observing session ... its EAA.
I feel that those who hate waiting for half an hour while 20 x 120 sec frames stack and reckon its imaging not EAA ... just don't read the posts by those who do! And those who do like that quality dont bother reading the posts by those who like 30 x 5sec shots or 5 x15sec. Waiting to hear a reply from Mike.
BTW ... link below to my latest HD vid of desktop showing live single 15 and 30 sec EAA using DSLR and AstroToaster at dark site. I tend to not watch forums much so if you have questions, I think by watching and pausing and digesting the info in the video you'll see the EOS settings, and the AstroToaster settings, and the advice re focal ratio so it will work for you. And if you need more info Google is your friend! :)
https://youtu.be/85CYhrOU6WU

[ChrisV]

Thanks Howard. Great idea !

[eskimo20]

Chris

The Ex3 looks like a rebadged Altair Hypercam. The sofware is also very similar to Altair (you can download that on the Altair webpage).

Been cloudy for weeks here so I haven't had much of a chance to test it.

[eskimo20]

I like this definition.

Nice views too. Not only can you do video astronomy, you can also set up a go-to ;)

[ChrisV]

First chance I've had between bad weather and work over the past 4-6 weeks. Got two hours last night before the clouds came in - but before that it was all good.
Attached is M42 which is the first thing I EAAed late last year.

On an 80mm refractor F5.9, no filter/reducer/guiding.
Modded 550D, 5x 120s subs, captured with EOS Utilities, processed live in Astrotoaster.
No post-processing.

[JA]

Excellent video and a real encouragement to try this in the field

Best
JA

[ChrisV]

Recently got an ZWO ASI071-MC cool. Here's the first go with it, on an 80mm refractor with UHC filter.
M42 2x 60sec
Eta Carina 2x 30sec.
Taken with Sharpcap, and processed live - histogram stretching while stacking (big wow, a stack of two).
No darks or flats.

[that_guy]

hey gang, a quick question regarding video astronomy. I have a samsung sdc435 i bought with the intentions of doing video astronomy but never got around to it a couple of years ago. now that i have a bit more motivation, i'm looking to really get in to it. I have all the necessary stuff to get it started (heq5, portable tv, power supply) but i'm in between scopes to mount on the heq5. I have a couple of choices here, should I go for a large achromatic refractor or a decent sized newt (prob gonna limit to 8" for the sake of the mount) or an ed80

thanks

[AG Hybrid]

Fast refractor. F6.5 or shorter. Get a 1.25" 0.5 reducer to make it even faster. A balance between aperture and optical system speed is the key here.
I think a 6" F4 newt might be good too for imaging with an EQ5.

But, I think a relatively fast refractor might be in order.

[that_guy]

Andrewscom has a gso 8" f4 newt, would this work?

[AG Hybrid]

If it weighs less then 10 KG with tube rings. Should be find for an EQ5 I think.

[that_guy]

Heq5 is bit more sturdier than the eq5. Could handle an 8inch newt no pron

[mental4astro]

I sometimes use an 8" f/4 Newt for video - very nice :) So a 6" f/4 Newt is no problem.

Be aware though that the 1.25" 0.5x focal reducers are not for Newts. These are designed for use with convex focal planes, such as those produced by refractors SCTs and Maks, not concave focal plane produced by Newts. From what I've been able to see, there is one focal reducer for Newts, and it is available Mallincam. I don't have one, and all about them is from reading reports about these, and I am considering one.

Alex.

[ChrisV]

+1 with what everyone else has said. And the HEQ5 will be brilliant for video. Howie up near Brisbane does does beautiful video with an 8" F5 newt on an HEQ5. He does single 30-60sec shots with a dslr. Here's an example:
http://astrovideoforum.proboards.com/thread/2021/another-single-sec-frame-night.

All the scopes you mentioned would be good (prefer the newts and ed80 rather than the achromat). I'm now using a GSO 8" F5 and an 80mm F5.9 triplet. They complement each other - one larger, one smaller FOV. I got those second hand here. The 8" F4 would be really fast - even better for video, and many people use 6" newts - I'd be interested to see how you go with them.

I don't know the samsung you have, but they have been used in the past. Give it a go, but it might be a bit underwhelming? You can always bang a 1.25" 0.5x reducer. We are live-viewing not imaging. So don't mind a bit of coma.

Have a go on stellarium (or something) and see how big the FOV is for differ scope/reducer combinations on a 1/3" camera for a few objects you want to look at.

[that_guy]

I've decided on an ED80, i know its fairly "slow" at f/7.5 but i hear good things :P

[AG Hybrid]

See if you can get a 0.5x reducer for you camera. usually a 1.25" version. At least it will be sub f/5 for shorter exposure time.

[that_guy]

something like this? https://www.bintel.com.au/product/bintel-focal-reducer-0-5x-1-25-inch/

[mental4astro]

Yes, just like that one.

One thing about these reducers, as you increase the distance between the camera's chip and the reducer lens you further reduce the scope's effective focal length - that is you make the focal ratio faster. Down side is you also increase the in-travel of the drawtube. With a refractor instead of using a 2" diagonal, a 1.25" diagonal will afford you a little more in-travel. This is more problematic with a Newt.

Alex.

[ChrisV]

Its so cheap its worth a go. But it might be a bit severe on an ED80. As Alex says, if you can reduce the sensor-reducer distance it will be less severe. And you won't be able to go much above a 1/3" camera sensor as you'll get bad vignetting & coma. I've used meade & celestron F6.3 & 3.3 SCT reducers on my refractor - shifting it from F5.9 down to 3.5 before I ran out of in-travel. The coma got pretty bad though.

[that_guy]

I posted this question on the astrovideoforum (thanks chris!) but I thought i might as well post it here as well. I've read articles that said removing the in built IR filter would improve the image but I can't get to it as one of the screws on the case has stripped basically clean. How much would this affect the image, and any tips on how to remove a stripped screw?

EDIT - got the ir filter after stripping the tips of my fingers clean. :)

[that_guy]

I was surprised at how much magnification it was. Omega Centauri was a neat sight through the ED80/SDC485 combo. Jupiter was meh cos I couldn't find the right exposure :P. Eta carina was prob the best in my opinion. The screen cap I took doesn't do it justice

[that_guy]

So my focal reducer and barlow arrived from bintel today. I ordered the 1.25" but received the 2". I didnt even know they sold these (couldnt find them on the website). My question is should i return this and get it replaced with the 1.25"? The samsung has a 1.25" nosepiece and so does my canon m10. I hear putting the focal reducer further into the tube will decrease image quality

[ChrisV]

How did you go with the 2" reducer Tony, sort it out ? Be interesting to hear your thoughts about it.

[that_guy]

havent gotten around to it yet christ, uni assignment week and all aha. I'll definitely let you know when i try it out

[eskimo20]

You only need live view to focus the scope on a bright star.

A DSLR is fine for "live" video.

Here's how to do it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=56&v=xHZbp5Fqv80

(Not my video)

[Howard]

Boy, posts are few and far between on this thread! Guess not many have gotten into EAA that much in Oz? Or everyone is out there having a blast and don't need to post?
Re focusing ... that video in the last post was one of mine, but doesnt really show focusing. Here's one I made quite a while back which shows a home made bahtinov mask which works a treat, and it shows it in use. And another which shows you really don't need a full size mask with a cutout when using a SCT ... a smaller one hung around the edges works just as well. That tip is especially useful if one is using a hyperstar on a SCT. BTW those flyscreen ones are much easier to make nice and small to allow focus using a DSLR lens. Having said that, if you either don't wish to make one, nor buy a commercial mask, then zooming in the liveview (if your Canon has that liveview) and moving the focuser of OTA or lens until the zoomed image looks as small as you can get works well too.
https://youtu.be/IeUs7pFwMJw
and ...
https://youtu.be/r9HPXvhw6ZQ
cheers

[ChrisV]

It's a bit hard to organise discussions of eaa with just one thread !

What camera are you using on the hyperstar?

[Howard]

GDay Chris ... doesn't matter which camera. The point of the idea of simply using a smaller mask hung around the edges is .... People currently buy a full size mask and fuss over cutting it into two halves so they can put it over/around the camera which is attached to the hyperstar. As clearly the camera has to be on the hyperstar in the optics chain in order for one to focus it. So after cutting they carefully figure out how to fashion some velcro/pivot idea to put the two mask back together once it is fitted over the camera on the hyperstar. Yup, all that works fine and you can like most people make one of those for hyperstar use ... but the video was to show you can buy a small mask, or 3D print a small one and simply slip it over the edge of the scope in the annulus between the hyperstar/secondary and the edge of the OTA ... and it works perfectly to throw a diffraction spike. Just thought I'd throw that vid into the post to generate an Aha moment ... cheers, Howie in Brissie. ;)

[brumby77]

Where is the best place to find one like this?