Takahashi Bino-TSA-120 F7.5 Binoscope

[Kunama]

I have always wanted a decent pair of binoculars and now seems like a good time to get this project off the ground....:):)

Some of you might have noticed that I have been afflicted :sadeyes: with Takitis for some time and though I have 'Beta tested' quite a few over the years, they have always been single units of varying specifications and types.....

Though I have some skills in the DIY arena I have decided that I want these binoculars to be something special and to that end have enlisted the help of friends here in Australia as well as Shanghai, China and Tottori City, Japan for the complex works. I will be undertaking the design and building of a suitable 'Fork' mount at a later date here in Canberra.

In the interim the binoculars will ride side-saddle on my SW AZ-EQ6GT mount.

The plan is quite simple really...... bolt two scopes into a cradle and install some diagonals into the back of them and put the whole lot on an 'L' bracket attached to the AZ-EQ6GT

Specs at a glance:
2 x TSA120 mm F7.5 @ 900mm triplet Super apochromats
EMS-ULS Silver Erecting Mirror System with 2" and 1.25" eyepiece holders
Range88-Studio 2047 Custom binoscope cradle
Range88-Studio 2047 M72x1.0 > 65mm Draw tube adapters
Takahashi TMT70300 Tripod (extension pier to made later)
Takahashi 7x50mm Finderscope
Lots of eyepiece pairs.... Take Abbe 32 & 18, LE 7.5 & 5, Panoptic 24.

I have started the collection of components by sourcing a pair of Takahashi TSA120 120mm F7.5 Super Apochromatic refractors

Phil has kindly parted with his beautiful Takahashi TSA120 and TMT70300 tripod which will be used to carry this project.

Mr Tatsuro Matsumoto of EMS-Matsumoto has very quickly made a pair of EMS-ULS Protected Silver coated mirror system visual backs which are on their way from Tottori City to Canberra at the moment... :thumbsup:

With thanks to Range88 :thanx: (of CN fame), Studio 2047 in Shanghai are making the required M72>65mm adapters and tube cradles and they will hopefully be on their way to Oz in the near future...

Pictorially not much to show yet :shrug: other than the 2 Taks and the EMS-ULS before their flight from Japan..

More to come later

[croweater]

Wow that is going to be a stunning setup Matt. :thumbsup: You did hint something was good was coming! Show us more when you can. Cheers Richard.

[Kunama]

Thanks Richard, I finally got approval from the Financial Comptroller for this but it came at a cost...... Guinevere now has a new caretaker......

As one might have guessed these binoculars are not for handholding in the dark..... so here is the GoTo version of the mounting system that will be used until I get a chance to build a sufficient Fork mount.

The Takahashi EM400 Tripod with an adapter by Kokusai Kohki and the AZ-EQ6GT and to balance the little binoculars, a Robin Casady 10.5kg Stainless counterweight (with a bronze bushing I turned for it recently) will be needed to keep the project on three legs...
The plan for the fork mount is to use 10K tic encoders and the beautiful Nexus DSC.... for a lighter weight push to option...

The glorious Tak EM400 tripod will hold up to 450KG :eyepop: but weighs in at a svelte 16.6KG with the adapter fitted :thumbsup:

[Kunama]

A little look at the business end:

[LewisM]

That grammatical error...oh, that grammatical error...you need a new dewshield :)

I am fairly confident these will completely torpedo APM's binoscope out of the water. :thumbsup:

Good to see that tripod no longer suffering the indignation of no/little use and NO MORE SCRATCHING on the black legs. PHEW! Saved by a caretaker.

[Kunama]

Lewis, I was going to enlist you for some new dew-shield decals
"Takahashi-Kunama BTSA-120F7.5"
The tripod is a monster alright !!!

[LewisM]

Let me see if I still have Adobe Illustrator installed for GOOD EPS fonts and we can do that.

[N1]

Unbelievable. Well done getting SWMBO approval for that thing :thumbsup:

[Kunama]

Last pic for the day, I promise..... ;)

this is the separation that the tubes will have in the final product:

"D" = 170mm

[LewisM]

You'd better sell me those Zeiss binoviewers seeing you won't need them any longer (NO, you are NOT using them on the FOA...that is your new finder :lol:)

[FlashDrive]

How nice is that ....:thumbsup:

[Atmos]

I’m drooling :lol:

[LewisM]

Need a bucket or a bib?

[Atmos]

Probably a bucket for now but a bib when my eyes get to feast upon the views ;)

[Kunama]

I hope to have these ready for viewing before Xmas though the fork mount will take some time and elbow grease..... there are a few things to attend to to make sure Mr Gravity doesn't play havoc with the BinoTak..

1. The ADM saddle plate will be bolted onto its 'puck' with 4 x M8 cap screws instead of the current 2.
2. The grub screws that hold the 'puck' in the mount's Alt Axis will be bolstered with the addition of 3 more M6 screws that will actually thread into the puck as well
3. An 'L' Bracket made of 80mm x 16mm Aluminium bar stock will be attached to a K-Astec 'D' series dovetail bar
4.The bino cradle will be secured into a second ADM saddle that will be bolted onto the end of horizontal arm of the 'L' bracket
5.Safety 'lanyards' of 2mm stainless steel wire will be fitted to the cradle and will loop over the clamping screws of the main saddle.

etc etc
more pics later... thanks for viewing

[Prickly]

Hi Matt

That looks pretty amazing. The ultimate bino!

Cheers
Dave

[thebonz]

Eye brows raised with the T.E.T

[Kunama]

Thanks guys, it is a fairly major commitment so I am hoping all goes smoothly.

Obviously it isn't a light bucket but should give nice views.

I am keen for the EMS-ULS system to arrive. They are a beautiful bit of kit, I had Tatsuro add the optional helicoid focusers to them which are 'counter rotating' and are used to adjust the inter pupillary distance which can be varied from 60mm to 78mm. This means the actual OTA cradle can be fixed and that means a lighter and more reliably parallel pair of OTAs.

The Bino-TSA is no lightweight though I am aiming to have it lighter than a single TOA150 OTA.... but fear I might have to do some gym work, I wonder if gyms give discount to us seniors :question:

[LewisM]

Well, that weak limp wrist of yours needs toughening up anyways :lol:

Oh, no, THAT is not what I meant... :P

[issdaol]

:scared3:

[croweater]

Gee those visual backs look good too Matt. What are the little knobs with arrows? Cheers Richard

[Kunama]

Richard, they are the collimation adjusters in X and Y axis. The cradle is used to get the tubes as parallel as possible, then the two EMS unit are set so their eyepiece adapters are parallel, finally the collimation is fine-tuned using those knobs.

[croweater]

Thanks Matt :)

[rally]

Matt,

It seems to me you have omitted two important items
2 x Tak 5 EP turrets !!

Look forward to hearing more upon completion.

[Kunama]

:lol::lol: I think these will be hard enough to lift without two x five eps...

Mr Postman called today with another box of goodies....

[Atmos]

A T31 in each?

[Kunama]

With thanks to Mr Tatsuro Matsumoto who made these for me in a few days and fittingly the EMS-ULS were EMS posted in 4 days:

EMS (Erecting Mirror System) ULS silver coated mirrors and helicoid adjusters with 65mm spigot connection to the draw tube adapter...

Total weight: 1365grams for the pair


(Current eyepiece pairs are TV Pan24, Tak Abbe 32 & 18, Tak LE 7.5 & 5) The budget is just about blown so no more for a long time.....)

[Kunama]

Now just waiting for the cradle and visual back adapters to come from Shanghai:
(makes the Bushnell 8x42s look rather tiny :) )

[N1]

Why, the Bushnells will be the finder of course, although a pair of Fujinons might be more appropriate :P

[Kunama]

Another part of the puzzle:

With thanks to Range and Studio 2047 in Shanghai with their CNC machines and skills, the scope cradle is now a reality and on its way to OZ to join the other bits and pieces on my table... :D:thumbsup:

The cradle is fitted with dual pivot stainless steel hinges, stainless button head socket screws and all stainless fixings to secure the two TSAs exactly 170mm apart and parallel on a 'D' sized 220mm custom dovetail bar.

The top tube is there to keep the clamps under control as well as providing a suitable handle for carrying the beast. The domed end cap of the handle tube with later be drilled to take a 12mm ø laser module powered by AA batteries inside the handle and triggered by a remote momentary switch..... It will be a green beam of undisclosed mW.... ( and yes they are legal to use in that config in the ACT )

To keep the dreaded dew away, a DewBuster with dual OTA heaters, a bino-pair heater strap and a ' laser warmer' will be powered by a 16Ah LiFePo 'Golf-Cart' pack....

[croweater]

Looks a treat Matt. Keep em comin. Cheers Richard :thumbsup:

[FlashDrive]

Your ' best ' project yet Matt ...:thumbsup:

This is going to be real nice when it's finished.

Col....

[Kunama]

Getting there Richard:

Here is the 'temporary' side mount L-bracket, one side locks into the AZ-EQ6GT and the other to the bino-cradle (the tripod is only there to rest the bracket on for the pic)

I hope so Flash..... :question::thanx:

[bigjoe]

Maybe Takahashi should subcontract you Matt ...when this is finished..A joint venture then..who ..knows. They should jet you over for discussions.
bigjoe.

[Kunama]

I like the way you think !!!! :thumbsup:
They did actually copy my FC76DCU conversion, I combined the FC76D Objective unit with an FS60CB focuser and CSV tube and then added the CQ1.7x extender, then 18months later Takahashi released that same combination....

[bigjoe]

There you go then Matt..Not a waste of talent then . The plagiarist rotters should of sent a few bob your way... and who knows what the future holds then, in this area of big big APO BINOS!

[Kunama]

Not much happening on the "Bi-Tak 120mmF7.5" at the moment, waiting eagerly for the parcel from Shanghai .....

I did manage to fit the Feathertouch Micro Pinion Assemblies and adjust the mesh to zero backlash :thumbsup:

[croweater]

Nice Matt. I agree with bigjoe. Tak should send a few LE pairs your way for promoting their product so well :) Cheers Richard.

[Kunama]

The temporary mounting solution for the binoscope.
The binoscope cradle has a 'D' series dovetail plate incorporated into it and that locks into the second saddle on the L-bracket......

Just waiting for Mr Postman now.... :prey:

[gts055]

Thanks Matt, I was wondering how the L bracket would adapt the binoscope cradle to the AZEQ6, this image explains it.

[LewisM]

Looks good, apart from that screwdriver holding it together.

[issdaol]

Is that what it is !?!?! ....Looks like some thing he procured from an adult store in Fyshwick ......:lol:

[LewisM]

If it was rainbow striped, maybe...

[LewisM]

Don't forget you cut me a copy too Matt.

Haven't you seen the big Rainbow bus driving around CBR - Phil and I can hold hands all we like now.:P

[Kunama]

The initial testing with one TSA120 showed some annoying flexing so I added a stainless steel 'knee brace' using 6 M6 button head socket screws to hold it in place and also placed the M8 cap screws with M8 countersunk socket screws...

Much better :D

The last bits have today cleared Customs so the binoculars should be finished by the weekend :):)

[LewisM]

Just in time for MORE rain... :sadeyes:

[thebonz]

Bitakulous

[croweater]

SpecTAKular :)

[Kunama]

Tomorrow's job:

I have never liked the idea of the 'puck' and its 3 retaining screws on the SW mounts :screwy: so tomorrow I will drill & tap three extra holes for M6 socket screws that go right through the puck rather than just pressing into the shallow dovetail groove and also drill an extra M8 cap screw between the two 1/4" screws that hold the puck on the ADM saddle..... then all will be ready for use

I guess I am trying to ensure the binoculars stay on the mount, the thought of a couple of TSAs hitting the ground is not very enticing....:sadeyes:

I might have to take an interstate run to get first light as it seems autumn has returned to Canberra.... :shrug:

Thanks :thanx: to all those following this little project and offering encouragement, and :thanx: also to all those who have sponsored it recently by buying all the excess astro gear that has been filling my cupboards...

:hi:

My next project won't now start until mid 2018, it will take that long for my wife to forgive me for the massive hit the bank account has taken.......

[LewisM]

Be damned careful drilling and tapping SW cast parts - know a guy who tried similar with an HEQ5 only to have it crack on him.

Slow and steady, well lubed with cutting oil (shut up Phil :P)

[Kunama]

I give myself great Xmas presents:

[LewisM]

Dibs

[croweater]

Great stuff Matt.:thumbsup: Hope you can test it out soon. Cheers Richard

[Kunama]

Raining here in Canberra Richard :mad2: ( I blame Phil and Joe for buying scopes in the last couple of weeks.... )

[croweater]

I think it could be your own fault Matt :lol:

[Wilso]

That looks fantastic Matt you've done a great job!

Congratulations :thumbsup::thumbsup:

I don't own one of these mounts, and you were talking about flexure so have you thought about mounting the binos directly above the mount with a u type bracket. Utilising both mounting positions and eliminating the counter weight.
Would only work if the shafts directly line up though.
Just a thought.

Cheers

[Kunama]

Some details:

2 x Takahashi TSA120 Super Apochromatic 120mm F7.5 @ 900mm - weight 11,700grams
2 x M72>65mmø adapters - weight 122grams each
EMS-ULS Mirror system - weight 1376grams
Range88 Cradle and 'D' dovetail plate - weight 2180grams

Total weight 15.5Kg

[Atmos]

I don’t think you’ve got anyone to blame other than yourself for the rain Matt. Those binoculars are almost deserving of their own wet season :lol:

[Kunama]

Thanks Darren, The side-saddle mounting is only temporary, I just ordered the material from Lakeview Engineering to build a new top mount with hanging counterweight arms similar to the Panther TTS160 mount......

I am getting the aluminium cut using a water jet and installing the top-mount onto the AZ-EQ6GT..... My design actually does away with the main saddle completely and connects directly to the puck and c/w bar.

[Wilso]

Yeh I only came across the panther mount a couple of weeks ago looking other options.

As usual you've got everything under control!

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Kunama]

In the meantime it seems to be fine on the side mount:

[LewisM]

Where is the FOA-finder? :lol:

[Kunama]

I just placed a big order with my friends at Telescope Express....... a new finder
which show the sky right way up and correct left to right is in the box they sent me today...... :D

[LewisM]

Well, sell me the Skysurfer :)

[Kunama]

Lewis, would you like me to add one to my next order from TS :question:

I am actually getting the new version of the SSV for the binoculars and making a little bracket to hold it vertical on the FQR-1 of the left TSA.
I also got the Baader Polaris I illuminated reticle eyepiece for faster and easier alignment of the mount.

[AstroApprentice]

Food for thought:
Meade fork mounts have been used to successfully mount binoscopes:
https://digiborg.wordpress.com/2017/09/13/borg-binoscopes-2/

And the Avalon binoscope fork mount looks awesome, but is bound to be $$$:
http://www.avalon-instruments.com/products/binoscope

[Dave47tuc]

Hi Matt,
Wonderful set up , I hope you stay with this sep up for the Mars opposition next year.

Congratulations sweet set up.

David.

[Kunama]

I looked at those Jason, but in the end decided to build my own conversion for the AZEQ6 to top-mount



David, I am carving my name onto the two OTAs to remove any temptation for anyone else to buy them..... I don't know how they will compare to some of my other stuff but I think these should be fine for lunar and planetary viewing and will give much wider true fields for OCs than my last few scopes ... I love being able to view with both eyes, so much more relaxing than mono-viewing.

I will also sort out a more portable mount for quick views.

[LewisM]

There is a certain brand of Turkish Delight covered in chocolate that's been an Australian icon for decades.

A namesake to this may want to sell his prehistoric reptile mount that you sold to him (along with the toey telescope I believe).

If you can't decipher that, then you are old :lol:

[thebonz]

With all the pieces coming together it could be the first FRANKENTAK

[LewisM]

Nah, there is a Frankentak dealer in Melbourne.

[Kunama]

Just to close off this thread on the build of the Bi-Tak:

Well the sky cleared and gave a couple of hours of very memorable views through the Bino-TSA.
I only used two pairs of eyepieces during the two hour stint, Panoptic 24mm at 37.5x and Takahashi LE7.5mm at 120x.
I will do a proper test of the scope soon but at this moment I consider it money well spent, I loved the absolutely pin sharp optics even more in the binoscope mode than mono.
The EMS-Matsumoto erecting mirror system is an absolute pleasure to use and merging the images is very easy whether over terrestrial distances or infinity focus.
The cradle worked perfectly to hold the tubes parallel and even my L-bracket performed admirably.

The comfort factor of the binoscope is fantastic. They really do give an impression of depth in the view.
The "binocular summation factor" has been argued ad infinitum on various fora, suffice to say that there seems to be truth in it.
For whatever reason the brain seems to combine the signals in a way that really improves one's ability to see the detail there.
Of course the absolute optical resolution is still that of a single 120mm optic but the improved 'signal to noise ratio' certainly allows one to 'see' more of what is there.

Later this week I will do an all-nighter with the Bi-Tak and hopefully have it side by side with Phil's TOA150 with Baader binoviewers.....

[croweater]

Excellent stuff Matt. Looking forward to your "all nighter " report. I've had your binos as my screensaver for a few days. It will soon need updating to Tak-bino with fork mount? ;):) . Cheers Richard

[Retrograde]

Fabulous work. :eyepop:
I've looked through a few big (newtonian) binos and they really do give astounding views for their aperture. I'm sure these will give many, many hours of viewing pleasure.

[Atmos]

I’m definitely interested in a comparison between the 120mm Bino vs 150mm kinda Bino ;)

[Kunama]

No contest on resolution of optics, the TOA's 150mm has the advantage there... as the resolution of the binoscope remains that which a 120mm scope can deliver but it will be interesting to actually see them side by side. :question:
Phil and I both have Panoptic 24mm pairs so that being the closest we will use them.
In the TOA150 they give 46x, 3.26mm and 1.48º
In the TSA120 they give 38x, 3.16mm and 1.78º

Should be fine for such an informal comparison.... :fight:

Obviously the main differences are that Phils binoviewers will dim the image each eye receives (reputedly to about the same as a single TSa120) while the 'binocular summation factor' theory, if it really happens, should make the views in the Bi-Tak stand out more than the 120mm aperture suggests.

I promise neither of us will do any self harm :sad: should the other scope provide a better view ;)

[Atmos]

If the brain interpolates the signals correctly then the theoretical resolution of the TSA120 pair could be the width of both objectives (300mm?) although the light gathering power would be maybe ~ 140mm?

[Kunama]

Unfortunately that won't be the case, I highly doubt that the brain will work as an interferometer would, thus the actual resolution will still be limited by the individual aperture of the scopes, but the improved 'SNR' should allow one to see what is there better using the binoscope than a single. That is where the binocular summation factor comes in.

Some people argue that the binocular summation factor is about 1.4x, others will tell you it is dependent on whether you're viewing extended objects or bright point sources. I have read argument for anywhere between 1.2x and 1.7x.

Using the 1.4x as an example, a 120mm binoscope would give a perceived image brightness about equal to a 168mm single scope. I have my doubts about that. Introducing binoviewers into a single scope means that the brightness perceived by each eye is less, usually quoted as about 70-75%. That (in theory) would mean that the TOA150 image would be dimmer than a 120mm single scope. (150x75%+112.5)

Another point to consider is that binocular use for people with an imbalance in their sight (one eye much better than the other) can actually reduce the perceived brightness. (Fechner's Pair of Ducks :lol:) which suggests that the brain will average the signal of two eyes where they are different and in those cases the person's good eye alone would see a brighter view than with both eyes...

It will be a nice experiment (albeit a rather expensive one :rofl:).

I will also be keen to see if any 3D effects are noticeable.
Using the binoscope certainly has a huge comfort factor in that my 'floaters' are all but invisible even at 120x and above....

What I am really looking forward to is high power lunar viewing in the binoculars.... :D:D

[LewisM]

Be interesting to use it one day, considering my difficulty using binoculars or binoviewers. I tried a pair of Vixen bino-telescopes and found integration easier by far with those than with a binoviewer.

I am VERY left eye dominant, and this is part of the integration issue - I have to FORCE my right eye to "see".

[MattT]

Looks might fine and heavy Matt.....bring it down and mount it on my mount while your doing the GP thing perhaps? Would love to look through it.

Like Lewis I’m very left eye dominant......binoviewing is no problem with the correct set up, very much along the lines you just described F.R. your binoscope.

M

[LewisM]

It's how Matt hurt his wrist. He's getting very quaint in his declining years... :P

[Kunama]

This brings to a close the Bi-Tak build.....

[RobF]

I see in your equipment list Tak now makes a TSA-240 F/7.5 :lol:

[Prickly]

Looks awesome Matt

Amazing attention to detail. Hope to get a chance to take a peek some time.

Only one thing better I suppose than a tak - a tak bino!

Cheers
Dave

[OzEclipse]

Had the opportunity to have a quick look through this instrument about a week ago. The view is :eyepop: & :jawdrop: Most 3D scope view I have ever seen.

Looking forward to more.

Joe

[Prickly]

Excellent Joe. Great to hear it performs as well as it looks that it should. Hope you are keeping well.

Best regards

[AstroApprentice]

Matsumoto EMS now available in stealthy black
See: https://digiborg.wordpress.com

[bigjoe]

Been crazy about binoviewing recently in my large Apo ..yes even on doubles ..and its proving a whole new experience..would be great to hear of your reports soon in this sensational instrument on same, in fact all celestial objects.
bigjoe

[Kunama]

Just a little update:

The prototype 'L' bracket was not up to the task at higher magnifications, allowing too much vibration, so this is Version 2.0

80mm x 16mm aluminium with M8x50mm stainless steel socket screws holding things together. I have also done away with the second saddle and am bolting the L-bracket directly to the Bino-Tak's cradle, saving about 800grams of weight from the system.

The bracket is bolted to the dovetail with M8 stainless screws which have locknuts on the back of the K-Astec dovetail plate.

[croweater]

Looks solid Matt. Good job mate. Cheers Richard. :thumbsup:

[AstroApprentice]

FYI,
Binotech now make bino-refractor cradles for Tak FC100s & Borg 107FLs
http://binotechno.com/gallery_en.html

[Kunama]

With the completion of the 18" scope project today, binocular aperture is no longer as important so I have sold the two TSA120s and have so far found one TSA102S in mint condition and looking for another .....

The EMS-ULS will work perfectly with the baby TSA and a new cradle is being made as we type in Shanghai.....

I will keep the current cradle just incase I decide on some wide field binoculars (like a pair of FSQ106ED... Lewis !!)

If one day I do move to a nice dark location I will get a pair of APM 152 scopes for a Super-Bino....