Is astrophotography the worst "Cost-per-Use" hobby ever?

[RugbyRene]

As I stare out of my window in Sydney and contemplate another lost night of imaging due to clouds, it got me wondering whether astrophotography is the worst "cost-per-use" hobby ever. Given how much we spend on equipment and how many times a year we actually use it, the ROI is pretty damn low.

Thoughts?

Rene

[Nikolas]

the equipment lasts forever

[RugbyRene]

Yeah but we don't and neither does my patience.

And might I add it's hard to get proficient at a hobby when you practice it so infrequently. With the bad weather in Sydney I've imaged maybe 6 times all year.

[Alchemy]

Initial outlay hurts a bit, but the long term approach isn’t bad.
It’s also one of those you can do for a reasonable amount, or you can sink a fortune into it. Modest mount, smallish refractor and a colour camera, can get great results. You don’t need to have the very best.

[sunslayr]

I think the problem is you're not investing enough. If you had 2 telescopes set up, you could get twice as much out of every clear night :lol:. Just wait for the next full moon, thats usually the only time I get a clear night.

[rustigsmed]

this ^^^^^^ :thumbsup:

[Imme]

Definitely not - 1/10 scale Nitro onroad remote control car racing is!

You can only race on specific tracks, many of which are closed the majority of the time and race meets occur more often than not on a monthly basis.

I was in to it in a big way for a while before i had a realisation that the money i was spending didn't equate to the enjoyment i was getting.

.......I must say though, my 'realisation' came a few minutes after my car lost connection with my controller causing it to run head on into a wall at around 90km/h at the end of the straight.....new front end and CF chassis required at a cost of a little over $1k.......this was a follow up to a crash the month prior where i spent $600 replacing the RHS front/rearwheel mounting hardware following another crash! Both the above 'drives' lasted under a minute from memory........so lets call it $13 a second for the 'fun' I was having.

Many would say it was lack of skill........but i was one of the better drivers!

[glend]

Owning a boat is far far worse, and the bigger the boat the higher the cost per use. There is good reason boats are called, " a hole in the water that you pour money into" .

[toc]

And now matter how good you think you are getting there is always someone better than you.

Think I'm finally over deluding myself that better more expensive gear will suddenly make my images not suck :)

[mura_gadi]

Hello,

Hear hear to this one a boat is " a hole in the water that you pour money into"...

Fishing ain't bad, I know one individual with over $60K's of artificial baits/lures... From tiny flies to massive game fishing lures. And he doesn't always catch a fish...

At least with astrophotography the pictures will last a lifetime, and the shot can always be returned to for more data.


Steve

[Startrek]

Rene,
Tonight looks like clearing by 9.30pm - 10.00pm and Thursday night looks clear all night
Just remember January and June are traditionally Sydney’s wettest months , July , August and September will provide more clear nights for us all !!
Be patient !!
When you get some clear nights you will forget about all the cloudy days and nights waiting
It’s part of the hobby dealing with Mother Nature
Hope you get your Obs underway soon
Martin

[xelasnave]

So true Glen, mine was $200 a month for the mooring, each year it would cost $5k to $7k for slipping, anti foul and repairs, $4k when it sunk at the mooring plus the following slip fees...and every trip to Bunnings $200 went in stuff...so the last time it was due to be slipped I gave it away..folk thought I was generous but the way I saw it I saved $7k slip etc and stopped the other outgoing.

I gave up motocross when younger cause each race was costing a front and rear sprocket and chain and more often than not a new rear tyre... and you had to have a new bike at start of each new season...therefore I think Astronomy can be relatively inexpensive.
Drag racing is the expensive one..fuel $100 a second
Alex

[AdamJL]

Such a funny thread :) I was thinking this very same thing on the weekend past.
I recently purchased a setup to use a Canon 100mm Macro. All up about $800. To support one lens. For really only massive targets visible for 3 months of the year. At weekends. When the weather is good...
what was I thinking?!

[Camelopardalis]

Ever considered you live in the wrong part of the country :P

[Steffen]

I’d build a cottage on the far side of the Moon, but the residential zoning there is such a bureaucratic quagmire…

[Camelopardalis]

Sounds great! But I hear the daytime Sun is even brighter than QLD :lol:

[Steffen]

Yep, but if you angle the scope away somewhat you can still view faint galaxies at noon.

[Hans Tucker]

Only if you purchase all the gear an never use it .. Guilty.

[RugbyRene]

Well that's the problem. I can barely use it because the weather is crap so it makes me wonder what's the point of owning thousands of dollars worth of equipment and never being able to take it out. Today for example looks beautiful in Sydney. Blue sky and sunshine. But it's forecast to rain tonight, so another night list. Makes me want to give it all up and take up a hobby where I can actually use my equipment. I knew this hobby was weather dependent but I'm barely able to take it out and use it.

[mura_gadi]

Hello,

Maybe a darksky astroholiday is what you need.

You can spend a lot of money on astro gear, $600-1k a year to get 5-10 days at a darksite is a worthy investment...


Steve
ps. You can get out of town for the night for as little as $6 a night at national parks. Plenty of good sites that have few if any visitors if you avoid the well known parks.

Pps. If you use state forests/parks make sure they do NOT allow shooting would be my recommendation.

[Startrek]

Rene,
I hear your frustration and it use to get me down a bit too but try to look at it this way. If nights were clear each week , after 5 years or so you would get bored with the hobby. The weather , atmospheric conditions , your equipment and so on all have their challenges, everything we do in life has its challenges
Stick at it , the weather will change , it’s not cloudy every night for weeks and months ( like the UK ). As I mentioned before January and June are Sydney’s wettest months , the weather will improve through July , August and September It’s an incredible hobby and the level of technology in cameras , software and equipment is improving all the time which is super exciting
I’ll be imaging on Thursday night in Sydney as it’s going to be clear , light winds and low humidity so little or no dew and seeing should be ok , fingers crossed
Hang in there mate !!
Cheers
Martin

[TrevorW]

I tend to agree in some respects, every man and his dog thinks they can do astro photography these days so the market is often saturated with second hand gear, although the market for second hand gear is very low and people expect to pay next to nothing, the cost for good gear here is very high often twice what you pay OS, the only items that generally do not get outdated are the mounts and scopes (moreso scopes), cameras become virtually worthless within a few years, so when I die all the gear I have, I'll bequeath to a local school, if they want it, with a name plaque attached, so some student may wonder while using it who the hell I was :)

[mandragara]

Well I do canyoning and I think I managed to get out 3 times over summer?

Weather dependent hobbies are always a bit rough

[RugbyRene]

What a surprise. The outlook for Thursday night has worsened. According to ClearOutside there'll be clouds until 10pm. Another lost night.

[Startrek]

“According to .....” is not actual , I use Cloud Free Night ( forecast is for 10 to 15% passing cloud until 9pm ) you just have to get out there and give it a go
You can still image with cloud patches here and there , just keep banging away with those subs , you might lose 5 to 10% but you might not
Your never going to get perfect clear nights every week on the coastal fringe
Only the other side of the Divide gets stable continuous weather 7 months of the year
I’ll be out tonight imaging til late , if I get some decent data great , if not , there’s always next time ,it use to frustrate me when I first stated but not anymore
Cheers

[Aron]

telescopes are a really bad choice if you're thinking investing in money.

[RugbyRene]

Agree. I might just sell all my gear and invest in a crypto mining rig. At least I'll make some money.

[evltoy]

I'm into RC helis and not the cheap crap you find at K-mart. Each large bird(5) cost me about $800-$2000 to build.

You cant fly them on very windy days (pending which one I'm using) and you now have to fly at a club $$$.. Those knobs with drones killed it for everyone.

Anyways, maintenance is every 50hrs if all goes well with no crash's and can cost $50-$200. Battery charge can cost when you run a few large ones and run time is only 6mins per pack.

To learn you need to fly and the amount of crash's you have while learning is crazy. You would pay a heli 5-10times over before you can say you can fly and thats after putting in 100's of hrs in. Also the tech is moving so fast now that you buy high end and 6 months down the road its worth nothing.

Astrophotography is a walk in the park and is perfect for those slowing down :rofl:. No stress & not as much money needed. Just kick back and wait for a good day... in the meantime research.... thats cheap!

I wont get into my other hobbies fishing/boating or MTB riding/racing

Cheers
Wayne

[Tulloch]

Yeah, I don't understand it either - I realise there are giant billion dollar space telescopes capable of images that I could never dream of. Yet I get up in the middle of the night in the freezing cold and try to photograph something that a million people have imaged before better than me.

Having said that, I will never understand buying and maintaining a boat, sitting in the cold to try and catch something that I could walk down to the nearest shop and buy for a couple of bucks ...

[xelasnave]

Come on please.
Alex

[evltoy]

you killing me :)

[Startrek]

Rene,
Beautiful clear night in Sydney tonight
No wind
No dew
Good seeing
Imaging M8
Guiding running smooth Dec 0.52 Ra 0.75
3 minute subs with L Extreme filter
Cheers
Martin

[RugbyRene]

Hi Martin,

I took your advise an setup for tonight.

I'm imaging IC4628 (Prawn nebula)
Guiding is ok: Dec 0.46 RA 0.70
5 min subs, L-Extreme, 2600MC

Doing a live stack in PI and it looks pretty good so far.

Rene

[Startrek]

Rene,
Fantastic, enjoy the night
Just a tip
In Sydney, I leave my mount and scope set up outside for 2 to 3 weeks at a time. I just bring my cameras and laptop back inside.When away down the coast at my dark site , I dismantle it and pack it away in the shed
I use 2 Orion scope cloaks which keeps it dry, saves hours and hours of set up time. Polar alignment once only , stays good for weeks
Photos of my rig in Sydney attached ( 6” f6 newt , EQ6R mount , home made weatherproof workstation , floor cable duct etc... )
Cheers
Martin

[Paul Haese]

To quote Anthony Wesley, "this hobby is not for the impatient".

There are some things you can do to alleviate the issue of cloud. Remotely operating your equipment in an area with better cloud prospects is the primary way of dealing with the problem. You don't need top of the range gear either. There is a chap here in SA doing remote work with an EQ6, GSO scope and has just spent some money on a mono camera. He has done a lot of problem solving but now getting results in a dark sky area.

In terms of my own expenditure which is well over 100K, I have the cost per use in remotely operated equipment, down to $3-$4 per use. It took nearly 10 years to get the cost down per use, but the secret is to operate the scope every clear night available. Using it autonomously allows the system to be accessed by phone. So while I am out socialising with my wife, the system is paying back the investment.

So my advice is persist with cloud, make other plans on how to use your equipment and then implement them.

[Renato1]

I can think of plenty of hobbies that cost more and get less usage that friends and colleagues have engaged in -
Boats and fishing,
Sailing,
Hunting/Shooting deer,
Four wheel driving.
Overseas travel/ tourism.

Each trip to Europe that my wife and I make costs more than I ever spent on astronomy in total.
Regards,
Renato

[xelasnave]

May I recommend consideration of a microscope.
It has the advantage of one initial investment with minimal ongoing expenses which are basically limited to a set of glass slides and cover slips.
You can use it anytime and if you buy a camera in your original purchase package you can enjoy a different world of photography.
I watch little creatures who live in pond water, which is very interesting because even as small as they are you can observe various behaviours.
There are however many things to observe apart from life in pond water.
Anyways to be a well rounded person one really should have many hobbies in order to keep a general broad interest as opposed to focusing totally on one thing.
Alex

[evltoy]

This is what I tell the wife and friends to justify all the expensive hobbies I have and had.

Put all jokes aside... I believe there is some truth to that statement. :thumbsup:

[multiweb]

But aren't you glad you have it when it's clear? :) And the added benefits are getting out, chilling out in beautiful remote places, driving out bush, socializing. Doesn't have to be expensive if you build up your gear incrementally. I've spend more money in coffee in the past 15 years than in astro gear. :lol:

[DarkArts]

Sailing, power boats, track racing, mountaineering ... A few activities that people I know are into that seem to be outrageously expensive - more so than astrophotography - though I suppose you could make AP as expensive if you tried, buying Software Bisque, PlaneWave, FLI, etc.

[xelasnave]

I think it depends also if you are an astronomer turned photographer or a photographer turned astro photographer. Personally my interest was astronomy first and so if I can not be out there I am still rather happy reading up on astronomy...like there has been no photography for me for six months but it really is not the end of the world given there is so much you can read about.
And so often I will just pop out with the binos if the cloud is coming and going. The other night it was no binos and just to take a short look at the Milly Way.
The last month has been clear but I cant go out yet but heck I still do a lot of astronomy.
Alex