WiFi boosting

[strongmanmike]

Wondering what people think is the best way for me to have a good WiFi connection at the new observatory.

We currently have a modem/router in the house to access our WiFi internet provider (YLess4U), which currently provides a 30down/12up WiFi internet connection (to be upgraded soon to as much as 100mbps). TV/Netflix, phones, laptops etc all connect via this.

The new observatory is 50m away from the house (https://pbase.com/strongmanmike2002/image/172436840/original) and will be solar off grid battery powered, with 240V supplied via a 2000W inverter.

Any suggestions? :)

Cheers

Mike

[JA]

Hi Mike,

Depending on how strong the signal is, and what sort of structures are in the way of the signal, perhaps a high gain antenna could be used, on the receiving (observatory) end. If there are any metal structures in the way of the signal (steel/metal fences, walls, roof etc..), perhaps you could reposition the modem/router within the home to improve signal strength outside the home.

I would grab a laptop with wireless capability or your smart phone and have a walk around outside to test / map wireless reception, possibly with the aid of a phone app for wireless signal strength and then take it from there, with any high gain antennas or amplifiers , etc... Of course if the datalink is critical then there's no beating cable.

Also if using a wireless antenna at the observatory (whether USB type aerial or Computer card (SMA?) plug in type antenna) you may be able to increase the antenna's directivity with a reflector of sorts and thereby increase the signal received. I once did this at home many years ago, but the other way around (on the transmit end) with a simple hand made metal parabolic reflector when wireless devices weren't what they are today. It might get you that little bit further. Some diehard wifi-ers use Pringle cans to improve signal directivity and strength.

Best
JA



PS:
I just saw your picture - the steel roof doesn't bode well for signal strength. I would try to get clear line of sight from the modem/router to the obsevatory (perhaps at the window) and test the signal in the current location versus the hopefully vastly improved (?) window or other unobscured location. Another thought: Your wireless modem router may have the option to also use an auxiliary external antenna which may help.

I haven't tried one, but here is another possibility: a wifi booster....
https://www.telstra.com.au/support/category/broadband/modems-and-wifi-boosters/how-do-i-set-up-my-smart-wifi-booster

[sheeny]

G'Day Mike,


My shed is about the same distance away from our house and I run one of these in the shed:


https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/401937379539?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DI TM%26aid%3D1110006%26algo%3DHOMESPL ICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D2020081814 3132%26meid%3D96defbb7da8c40dfabe56 8939f4ce99f%26pid%3D101198%26rk%3D1 %26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D224802420558%26i tm%3D401937379539%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3 D0%26pg%3D2047675%26algv%3DSimplAML CvipPairwiseWebWithBBEV2bDemotion%2 6brand%3DNETGEAR&_trksid=p2047675.c101198.m1985&amdata=cksum%3A40193737953996defbb7 da8c40dfabe568939f4ce99f%7Cenc%3AAQ AGAAACEIagFieY%252FQ7qJja%252BXOyEW 7gH%252B9hdZHYUQOZ5a0No3pPdEwYf%252 BaGDP6q6dHmcAPuhJnCyO4rzfi%252FcbR6 jJG2LJdKdoqG6jXI3oVr5rAYFtg1y7lvn5s Vmz0ZounRmaAD1DVNtVbrFSlkEAFH%252BY bsaJLktC6p2deQIkUmmzd%252B%252Fa0lB g6YZIaypPFOWAqTCBzhykr06Qj%252Fsst0 dza6mZMgDa1h4UVIS1NquptBoBzKJMBoDWU btY%252BMzuce7bkHHiBodB7xDAXh1SiKn1 i0TOQCcF7FmLcokpvD7bhw6f3mIMY1NUduS NP%252FqPswZT0i1Q6NtFTnDV8BFgTBUCNk 6jgCUfLCNWy5L0%252FV7wvkUfFPJlUjhEX 6AkDIQ6Oix%252B9DinqzCiEyPNcZj8DZSA vqk9icYjAyG8YnqdgmN2nQ285aEcNiQ4ToS 5pf8o7vbuMANhncLAjCmZK10D%252Fg5p8I IP6LLE5MQIEuDvJU3jkMGf1oE%252Bx2r5u sVKE7rfjcW7P2M%252Foi4wXXOzeZZ9Vjju 3ph4PDVMpqyCaq%252B%252F14RRyny9wrg YwEhGEYYUOlRk2HBfAlpl5cdgtT9OVjpNcJ ZD%252BMexG2FVVXA2dYtAFiOCDAVSap6yH 9V906Po4B%252FXarUMBuK%252B%252B8eB lLM1a6KzBckh5qfckByEGz778nU5Jj5yrhz pRqeDjHV3L6YQG6unjdALbdkd2hcIA%253D %253D%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2047 675&epid=28035054297


It all depends on whether it can pick up the wifi signal at that distance though, so I have my router situated high in the house with the antennae oriented to punch as much signal that way as possible. If you can get a wifi signal with your phone (even a weak one) this will work. I get about 1 bar on my phone at the shed without the extender and full strength signal with it. If your obs/warmroom is metal clad, try to position the extender at a window so the metal cladding doesn't block the signal (Faraday's Cages and all that stuff).


Otherwise you might need to look at a wifi bridge - a pair of monodirectional wifi antennae aimed at each other and then an access point in the obs.


Al.

[AstroJunk]

I have a mesh system that ensures wifi anywhere on my acreage, but for the observatory I ran gigabit ethernet. I can get wifi in the dome, but hardwired I can remote access into the observatory from the comfort of my office and get a perfectly jitter free desktop experience.

[strongmanmike]

Ok, thanks for the feedback so far guys, much appreciated :thumbsup:

Ah yes..probably a good idea to take my laptop out to the observatory and see what I have, huh? :rolleyes: :lol:...maybe I am ok as is..? :question:...given the shape and materials of our house, I'm not too confident though :whistle: our phones work a long way from the house though :question:

Mike

[mura_gadi]

Hey,


This one appears to have a home socket setup with a 60m cord to an outdoor wi-fi access point. Might do the trick, though they say it can boost a signal to 200m so you may just need a directional mount on the house. Though if you ever want a 4k camera to 4k TV for EAA it might be a bit slow.


https://www.centrecom.com.au/tp-link-eap110-outdoor-n300-wireless-outdoor-access-point?gclid=CjwKCAjwxOCRBhA8EiwA0X8 hi_sWDODo0K6FvqbSRaOAkMKfrvLQdCV1-ppy_8ZmPMsJ_fHN8JY3tRoCpfMQAvD_BwE

[Steffen]

WiFi doesn’t reach 50m, not without specialised antennas. Run a cable. It’s a one-time effort, you’ll never have any issues again (unless a keen gardener digs through it). Inside the shed you can have a little Netgear GS108 switch or something like that, or even a small WiFi access point for your phone, tablet, etc.

[strongmanmike]

Thanks Steffen, are you saying run a cable direct from the modem inside, out of the house, then under the ground for 50m, up to the observatory, which is 10m above the house? Then put a transmitter inside the observatory?

Cheers
Mike

[sil]

Yes good cable is always better than wifi. Cheap out on crap cabling and if you make poor connectors you’ll likely have issues though just to save a couple of bucks. Small wifi access point in the ob is just for you to connect your phone or tablet while out there. But remember it shares the bandwidth possible in the cable . A wifi extender might work but the air is full of rf signals so you will never have a perfect connection and every device you connect limits bandwidth of the network. Plus there is security to consider, all those handy wifi connected gadgets have little but usually no security and could be using bandwidth by constantly scanning your network and sending data overseas for all sorts of reasons. And of course its possible a neighbour taps into your network using bandwidth, an extender makes you a target to a larger radius and on an open property you are an obvious target to someone with a good directional antenna.

[Steffen]

Yes, regular CAT-6 gigabit Ethernet is good for 100m. Inside the shed you connect whatever serves your devices in there best. With a WiFi access point you often get two or three switch ports as well, so that may be the way to go.

Once you’ve dug the trench put in an extra run of network cable, as contingency. And perhaps even a power cable, in case the sun doesn’t shine ;)

[AndyG]

2nding the notion of cable over wireless.
You can either terminate it yourself, or get something pre-terminated. Example:
https://www.execab.com.au/products/70m-cat-6-utp-gel-filled-gigabit-ethernet-network-cable
(just a google search, have never bought from them)

Whichever way you go, get the gel filled cable for an outdoor/buried job. Conduit is is necessary for survivability.

[mura_gadi]

If you can't get the conduit cheaply, just get some 2nd hand hose and run it through.

[Startrek]

Mike,
Run 4 x Cat6e Data cables underground in a 32mm UG PVC conduit 600mm deep ( suppose to use white conduit as per ACA ) backfill with paving sand
Then have network Ethernet gear either end
Why 4 cables ? Redundancy and additional future requirements
This will future proof your installation
If it were me up on that mountain, it’s a given
Wifi can be frustrating
Alternatively run 2 x fibre cables but more costly ( Cat6e cable is cheap and fast)
Cheers
Martin
PS: I installed 2 x Cat6e data cables 30m from house to my NexDome Obs on the South Coast , no connection issues at all after 12 months

[strongmanmike]

Thanks for all the replies everyone, very helpful :thumbsup: several different approaches possible it would seem? I think I will try a wireless approach first :question: and see how that goes, if it proves problematic, I will consider the time, effort and expense, of digging a 60m+ trench (through lots of rock!!) and laying cable

So if there are any more suggestions of what reliable wireless hardware to use, that would be welcomed :)

Mike

[Startrek]

I’m assuming the Dome will eventually be connected to the internet via network gear ( connection to the network boundary ) so you have to use white conduit for telecommunications cabling ( ACA )
White 32mm conduit is $6 or $7 a 4m length so 50m would cost $90
Cat 6e cable is cheap too I think around $1.50 or less a metre
Cabling costs are insignificant in comparison to the whole installation
Mike can dig the trench and lay the conduit and install the cabling , just need a sparky or RC to connect either end and sign off
I’m a retired National electrical contractor and current Registered ACA cabler

[multiweb]

If you really want to go wireless you could look into open mesh access points. Works as a daisy chain. You need to provide power along the way. So hard cabling is still the best way to do what you want in the long run.
PS: another way of doing it is to use a microwave antenna if you have line of sight.

[pmrid]

Mike,
when I was on my farm, my obs was 200 meters from the house where I had a satellite internet connection.

My house modem was one of those with multiple removable antennae one of which I removed. I bought suitable connectors and co-ax cable and connected it via that screw-on antenna point to a dish antenna of the side of the house facing the obs and lined it up by eye.

I installed a similar one on the obs and connected it to an access point and router in the obs. So essentially, the internet signal from the house was pushed to the obs and it worked flawlessly.

I later repointed the dish to a lookout I built on a hilltop about 1200 meters away (line of sight) and I still had good signal.

Sorry I can’t remember the precise detail of the access point and router butbI’m sure a tecchie type could easily fill in the gaps.

It was cheap and cheerful. But it worked even over an extended range.

[AdamJL]

+1 to Cat6 cable. 50m is easily doable, and you'll get the max speed of whatever you have on the end points.

[The_bluester]

For my shed (About 50M from the nearest wifi AP in the house) I tried a number of wifi solutions, all were rubbish IMO, that included range extenders and long range point to point links. I then tried an ethernet over power adapter but the distance by cable from the nearest GPO in the house that I could use and the first one in the shed was on the ragged edge for that and it was also rubbish, I could nto even reliably stream music from a NAS in the house. Moral of the story, IMO wifi is reliably good for about a third of the ranges they spruik and best left for phones and tablets unless you have no other option.

Eventually I put in a conduit (White comms conduits, at 600MM deep and using P1 pits for access in the tricky bits, I work in the comms industry) and CAT6 cable and it has just worked ever since. If I want decent wifi for remote desktops from the shed to my pier (About 20M away) I have to run the cable out the door and put the shed access point outside for the night.

When I finally build an obs it will be getting a cabled connection from the house, which will be a fibre link. Sooner or later I will overhaul the link to the shed with a fibre too. If more bandwidth is needed in future and I have a singlemode fibre there it may be as simple a matter as a new SFP at both ends to upgrade, or new switches, but the fibre can run terabits.

[strongmanmike]

Thanks again guys :thumbsup: Trenching and hard wiring is the best solution and I will likely do that at some stage? I will check signal strength at the observatory this weekend and then see if Al's solution works in the first instance...then, go from there. Will need to install the off grid power ASAP too, I have all the bits..I think? :question: :)

Mike

[gregbradley]

Cat 5 ethernet cable from my office to the observatory at home is about 50 metres and it works well.

At Bigga I have a big roll of it and roll t out and connect to inside. That is probably close to 50 metres also, maybe 40. Works well.

So its a simple test really, get 60 metres of Cat 5 cable (blue) and the tool to put connectors on it, make your own cable and roll it out and use remote desktop and see if it works.

For some reason I have to ask my laptop to connect to the observatory laptop twice. The first time fails and the 2nd time always connects.

It of course requires an electronic focuser on the scope. In your case if you still have to manually move your dome you'll have to go out to your observatory anyway so not as much benefit if that is the case.

For me it saves a lot of mossie bites! Or late night changes of targets.

Greg.

[OICURMT]

The only word you need... "Cantenna"

[Camelopardalis]

Mike, physically cabling all the way.

But remember the first rule of networking…if you have to lay one cable, always lay two!

Also, while Cat6 should be totally fine over that distance, consider running fibre…

[strongmanmike]

Thanks again for all the feedback, all very useful. I will probably start with using the WiFi and a wifi booster at the observatory, for simple remote access and control, the signal at the observatory is already quite strong (consistently 2 to 3 bars), just from the control room and house, with all data just saved locally and transferred manually, via memory stick, when I'm ready to retrieve it. Down the track I will consider a hard wired connection.

The commercial WiFi infrastructure, located on our 100acre property, is currently being upgraded and our provider notified us today that they are moving us from our 30/15 service to an unlimited 100/50 speed internet connection service, hope it proves consistent and reliable, but that's pretty cool :D

Mike