gregbradley
23-11-2008, 03:19 PM
I have had a few nice refractors and I thought I would put my view on them in writing as I used to love reading some of those ED Ting reviews of refractors and other scopes.
The refractors I have had are:
1. Orion ED80
2. Tak FS102
3. Tak FS152
4. Tak FSQ106N (fluorite)
5. William Optics 80mm APO triplet with the Lomo lens (erroneously marketed as a fluorite triplet)
6. Tak FSQ106ED with reducer
7. AstroPhysics 140mm with 4 inch focuser and matching telecompressor.
8. Astrotech 66mm ED
9. TMB 65mm Backpacker (several of these).
1. Orion ED80;
The Orion scope is a legend and extremely popular. Compared to an SCT it gave fabulously sharp views although with only 80mm these would be limited to widefield star views not DSO's so much except for the brightest.
It is very lightweight and this makes it handy for piggybacking on an SCT or other scope. Some have had trouble with the focuser and collimation, mine was fine. That was a long time ago and there are so many variations on this scope now I don't know which is which. Different brands no doubt use the same lens but their own touches. If I were to get another one I'd check out Astrotech, Stellarvue or similar for their version.
Because it was lightweight I also used it a large telephoto lens for some terrestial photos. I'd give it about 7 out of 10 as the quality assurance is not really there and the machining and assembly was a bit basic although practical and workable.
2. Tak FS102:
This was my first Tak and the sheer quality and strength of construction is the first thing that hits you. Tak oozes quality construction.
The scope was flawless and only showed a small amount of edge colour on the moon otherwise it showed none visually.
102mm again, is quite dim for viewing DSOs but is great for widefield views of star fields. I remember a spectacular view through this scope using a Binoviewer (Denk) and a pair of 19mm Panoptics.
3. Tak FS152:
I agonised over this choice for a long time as the TOA series had just been released but only the TOA130. They were similar prices but in the end I decided aperture rules and to go with the most aperture.
The scope again oozes luxury and quality. That huge big green fluorite objective is very appealing.
First light was taking out to dark skies near Cowra NSW. Looking around with a large number of high end eyepieces I had at the time was stunning.
Up to that time I had used a Meade LX90 (8 inch SCT). I was stunned that the FS152 was brighter than this 8 inch SCT and the views were so sharp and detailed it was really something. It was particuarly sensational with a 22mm Nagler type 4. A stunning scope, lightweight, easy to use, virtually no cooldown time, fabulous focuser. Everything worked beautifully.
For imaging it was also great although the doublet starts to show its limitations with a tendency to have blue halos around brighter stars. This is blue being out of focus as APO manufacturers try to get green in focus and blue least. Still overall a stunner.
I upgraded mine later to a 4 inch focuser and dedicated field flattener. This enabled the scope to handle any chip up to 16803 and perhaps a bit beyond. The Tak microfocuser which was an add-on was good but a bit spongy. Not as good as others I have used since.
9 out of 10.
4. Tak FSQ106N;
This scope was close to perfection. For imaging it was unrivalled in its time as hundreds of incredible images prove.
The 4 inch focuser and camera rotator and lock were just a pleasure to use. Quite a heavy scope for its size, tanklike is the usual expression describing it. Loved it. Minor optical aberration in FSQ106Ns where bright stars at the edges of the image have a dark tunnel through them. Easily removed with Photoshop but was told it was vignetting. Not just my FSQ but all of them. 9.5 out of 10 for this scope.
5. William Optics 80mm Lomo triplet;
This scope was a disappointment. After reading all the hype about super apo and the false advertising claiming it was a fluorite triplet (WO have never made a fluorite scope and lie about this - they call ED glass fluorite much like Meade called their RCX advanced Ritchey Chretien).
It arrived badly out of collimation. I had to install a metal shim in the rotatable focuser to improve it which it did enormously. The visual back was tad oversized so things tend to be able to pivot (poor machining). The focuser lock did nothing practically. The scope looked nice and the tube was nice but overall a 4 out of 10 for lying about the lens, the really poor collimation, the oversized sloppy visual back and the useless focuser lock which slipped. After the quality of the Taks this was an eye opener as this was an expensive scope.
6. Tak FSQ106EDX and reducer.
I almost didn't buy one of these as I was so happy with my FSQ106N. I also didn't like the look of the initial images that were being posted on the net using these scopes. They seemed sharp yes, but the colour seemed harsh and a bit greenish. The earlier FSQ gives more colourful images, the newer FSQ gives sharper images.
As a scope everything works very well. The captains wheel rotatable focuser system is probably a waste of time and Tak should not have bothered as I think most people keep theirs locked down.
The microfocuser is absolutely superb and even better than the Feathertouch one on my AP which is fabulous.
The focuser lock though is not as good and if you fine focus and then lock it shifts the focus a touch. So you have to keep the focus lock partially engaged and then tighten it once focus is spot on.
The dewshield slides better than the FSQ106N which was a little sticky. The scope is more compact and super well made.
The F3.64 reducer is an optical marvel and will handle cameras as large as the Apogee U16M. I am not aware of any other scope that has a reducer that handles large chips. They typically cause coma and you are stuck to using a flattener and no reducer. The only other one is the AP 155TCC. That costs US$2,300 or so. So I give the reducer a 10 out of 10 and the scope a 9 out of 10 with the focuser lock and the captains wheel setup the only minor criticisms on an otherwise near perfect scope. Importantly, the optics are perfect.
7. AstroPhysics 140mm with 4 inch focuser and 155TCC:
Believe it or not I bought this scope on a whim! I had already ordered a TEC180mm fluorite triplet and knew it was going to take a while. But after reading all the praise for AP scopes over the years and having seen the absolute best images from these scopes I thought it was a rare chance to get one. One was for sale on Astromart that was only 3 months old and had the telecompressor which is a work of optical art.
First impressions of the scope were stunning. This is super quality. You can see the years of experience Roland has in developing his scopes to being the most practical, useful, built for purpose scopes around. Even compared to the super high quality of the Taks I'd have to give the nod to the AP. It is another step up.
A largish scope, heavier than I expected with a huge beautiful greaseless 4 inch focuser that has a coppery golden gleam to it. The feathertouch microfocuser is fabulous. The focuser lock works well, the machined compression ring system is very secure and solid. Everything about the scope is very solid and well made. The heart of the scope though is the lens. A Roland Christan FPL53 ED triplet with the correct matching glass lens made to his exacting standards and hand figured by him personally. He has super high standards.
I was also impressed by the rings and dovetail plates etc. All really practical and super well made.
First views through this scope were equally impressive. It is F7.5 and around 900mm focal length (from memory). So it gave a wider view than the FS152. I was stunned at how small and pinpoint stars looked. The Tak FS scopes are super sharp, this was in another league. Tiny pinpionts, the Jewel Box was super super sharp.
Also for imaging this scope really shows its stuff. A huge 100mm illuminated field, the huge focuser and luckily I was able to attach my Tak FS152 dedicated flattener which worked perfectly giving pinpoint stars to the corner of an STL11 or Apogee U16M camera. No hint of false colour at all. All stars show their natural colour and no blue halos.
This scope is a 10 out of 10 and you realise why Roland's scopes are so sought after.
8. Astrotech 66mm ED. I use this little scope for a guide scope and admire how well made it is for the money. It was the cheapest scope I have bought and it really is incredibly well made. It does a very good job as a guide scope.
9. I bought a few TMB 65mm ED Backpackers from Burgess Optical as they were going for US$20 without a focuser. I since have bought a couple of focusers for about $30 each. I gave some away as gifts. I now have a couple with focusers and it seems to be a nice little scope but the Astrotech 66mm ED is much higher quality.
There's my experience so far with refractors. I hope you find it helpful.
Greg.
The refractors I have had are:
1. Orion ED80
2. Tak FS102
3. Tak FS152
4. Tak FSQ106N (fluorite)
5. William Optics 80mm APO triplet with the Lomo lens (erroneously marketed as a fluorite triplet)
6. Tak FSQ106ED with reducer
7. AstroPhysics 140mm with 4 inch focuser and matching telecompressor.
8. Astrotech 66mm ED
9. TMB 65mm Backpacker (several of these).
1. Orion ED80;
The Orion scope is a legend and extremely popular. Compared to an SCT it gave fabulously sharp views although with only 80mm these would be limited to widefield star views not DSO's so much except for the brightest.
It is very lightweight and this makes it handy for piggybacking on an SCT or other scope. Some have had trouble with the focuser and collimation, mine was fine. That was a long time ago and there are so many variations on this scope now I don't know which is which. Different brands no doubt use the same lens but their own touches. If I were to get another one I'd check out Astrotech, Stellarvue or similar for their version.
Because it was lightweight I also used it a large telephoto lens for some terrestial photos. I'd give it about 7 out of 10 as the quality assurance is not really there and the machining and assembly was a bit basic although practical and workable.
2. Tak FS102:
This was my first Tak and the sheer quality and strength of construction is the first thing that hits you. Tak oozes quality construction.
The scope was flawless and only showed a small amount of edge colour on the moon otherwise it showed none visually.
102mm again, is quite dim for viewing DSOs but is great for widefield views of star fields. I remember a spectacular view through this scope using a Binoviewer (Denk) and a pair of 19mm Panoptics.
3. Tak FS152:
I agonised over this choice for a long time as the TOA series had just been released but only the TOA130. They were similar prices but in the end I decided aperture rules and to go with the most aperture.
The scope again oozes luxury and quality. That huge big green fluorite objective is very appealing.
First light was taking out to dark skies near Cowra NSW. Looking around with a large number of high end eyepieces I had at the time was stunning.
Up to that time I had used a Meade LX90 (8 inch SCT). I was stunned that the FS152 was brighter than this 8 inch SCT and the views were so sharp and detailed it was really something. It was particuarly sensational with a 22mm Nagler type 4. A stunning scope, lightweight, easy to use, virtually no cooldown time, fabulous focuser. Everything worked beautifully.
For imaging it was also great although the doublet starts to show its limitations with a tendency to have blue halos around brighter stars. This is blue being out of focus as APO manufacturers try to get green in focus and blue least. Still overall a stunner.
I upgraded mine later to a 4 inch focuser and dedicated field flattener. This enabled the scope to handle any chip up to 16803 and perhaps a bit beyond. The Tak microfocuser which was an add-on was good but a bit spongy. Not as good as others I have used since.
9 out of 10.
4. Tak FSQ106N;
This scope was close to perfection. For imaging it was unrivalled in its time as hundreds of incredible images prove.
The 4 inch focuser and camera rotator and lock were just a pleasure to use. Quite a heavy scope for its size, tanklike is the usual expression describing it. Loved it. Minor optical aberration in FSQ106Ns where bright stars at the edges of the image have a dark tunnel through them. Easily removed with Photoshop but was told it was vignetting. Not just my FSQ but all of them. 9.5 out of 10 for this scope.
5. William Optics 80mm Lomo triplet;
This scope was a disappointment. After reading all the hype about super apo and the false advertising claiming it was a fluorite triplet (WO have never made a fluorite scope and lie about this - they call ED glass fluorite much like Meade called their RCX advanced Ritchey Chretien).
It arrived badly out of collimation. I had to install a metal shim in the rotatable focuser to improve it which it did enormously. The visual back was tad oversized so things tend to be able to pivot (poor machining). The focuser lock did nothing practically. The scope looked nice and the tube was nice but overall a 4 out of 10 for lying about the lens, the really poor collimation, the oversized sloppy visual back and the useless focuser lock which slipped. After the quality of the Taks this was an eye opener as this was an expensive scope.
6. Tak FSQ106EDX and reducer.
I almost didn't buy one of these as I was so happy with my FSQ106N. I also didn't like the look of the initial images that were being posted on the net using these scopes. They seemed sharp yes, but the colour seemed harsh and a bit greenish. The earlier FSQ gives more colourful images, the newer FSQ gives sharper images.
As a scope everything works very well. The captains wheel rotatable focuser system is probably a waste of time and Tak should not have bothered as I think most people keep theirs locked down.
The microfocuser is absolutely superb and even better than the Feathertouch one on my AP which is fabulous.
The focuser lock though is not as good and if you fine focus and then lock it shifts the focus a touch. So you have to keep the focus lock partially engaged and then tighten it once focus is spot on.
The dewshield slides better than the FSQ106N which was a little sticky. The scope is more compact and super well made.
The F3.64 reducer is an optical marvel and will handle cameras as large as the Apogee U16M. I am not aware of any other scope that has a reducer that handles large chips. They typically cause coma and you are stuck to using a flattener and no reducer. The only other one is the AP 155TCC. That costs US$2,300 or so. So I give the reducer a 10 out of 10 and the scope a 9 out of 10 with the focuser lock and the captains wheel setup the only minor criticisms on an otherwise near perfect scope. Importantly, the optics are perfect.
7. AstroPhysics 140mm with 4 inch focuser and 155TCC:
Believe it or not I bought this scope on a whim! I had already ordered a TEC180mm fluorite triplet and knew it was going to take a while. But after reading all the praise for AP scopes over the years and having seen the absolute best images from these scopes I thought it was a rare chance to get one. One was for sale on Astromart that was only 3 months old and had the telecompressor which is a work of optical art.
First impressions of the scope were stunning. This is super quality. You can see the years of experience Roland has in developing his scopes to being the most practical, useful, built for purpose scopes around. Even compared to the super high quality of the Taks I'd have to give the nod to the AP. It is another step up.
A largish scope, heavier than I expected with a huge beautiful greaseless 4 inch focuser that has a coppery golden gleam to it. The feathertouch microfocuser is fabulous. The focuser lock works well, the machined compression ring system is very secure and solid. Everything about the scope is very solid and well made. The heart of the scope though is the lens. A Roland Christan FPL53 ED triplet with the correct matching glass lens made to his exacting standards and hand figured by him personally. He has super high standards.
I was also impressed by the rings and dovetail plates etc. All really practical and super well made.
First views through this scope were equally impressive. It is F7.5 and around 900mm focal length (from memory). So it gave a wider view than the FS152. I was stunned at how small and pinpoint stars looked. The Tak FS scopes are super sharp, this was in another league. Tiny pinpionts, the Jewel Box was super super sharp.
Also for imaging this scope really shows its stuff. A huge 100mm illuminated field, the huge focuser and luckily I was able to attach my Tak FS152 dedicated flattener which worked perfectly giving pinpoint stars to the corner of an STL11 or Apogee U16M camera. No hint of false colour at all. All stars show their natural colour and no blue halos.
This scope is a 10 out of 10 and you realise why Roland's scopes are so sought after.
8. Astrotech 66mm ED. I use this little scope for a guide scope and admire how well made it is for the money. It was the cheapest scope I have bought and it really is incredibly well made. It does a very good job as a guide scope.
9. I bought a few TMB 65mm ED Backpackers from Burgess Optical as they were going for US$20 without a focuser. I since have bought a couple of focusers for about $30 each. I gave some away as gifts. I now have a couple with focusers and it seems to be a nice little scope but the Astrotech 66mm ED is much higher quality.
There's my experience so far with refractors. I hope you find it helpful.
Greg.