2001 Lancer - instrument cluster problem

[erick]

Before I go any further with this, just thought I would check if there is any experience out there of this problem.

About a month ago much of my instrument cluster (tacho, speedo, odometer, temperature gauge - and maybe some warning lights - handbrake for one) went off while I was driving. After a few days, I ascertained it was temperature dependent. Temperature rises, they go off. Temperature falls, they come back on. Pre-Summer temps seem to have brought the problem on.

I've searched around the websites and some people have observed the problem, but there were few fixes proposed and none that made sense - eg. connect a 12V wire to one of the screws!

Pulled everything out - unit neatly unplugs from two sockets. Cleaned all contacts in and out in case it was an intermittent power problem. No go.

Have checked on-line for a replacement unit - no luck. I'll have to go around the wreckers. I have no wish to pay the cost of a new replacement! Also, the car is a limited edition with white gauges - probably hard to get.

I'd love to have an extension cable to work with the unit on my front seat - but that is probably impossible to obtain - the plugs and sockets are very unfamiliar to me. I can get the front perspex cover off, but cannot see how to pull the tacho and speedo needles off, so I cannot remove the white plate (for want of a better term - the plate with the numbers) so I can get at the two circuit boards while the unit is plugged in. The needle connection is not straightforward or intuitive - yes I have put big pliers on it and tried to pull it off!

I am able to get the nozzle of a freezer can behind the plates and generally spray the circuits. I am slowly narrowing down the components which, after spraying, seem to come good and allow the instruments to function again. But I am spraying somewhat blind. They seem to be those in the odometer display region - the lower part of the speedo/odometer board.

I have gone over the entire unit and touched up every solder joint - on the rear plastic circuit "board" and in the two circuit boards - one on the back of the tacho gauge and one on the back of the speedo/odometer gauge. Nothing changed after I did that.

So, questions are:-

1. Anyone seen this fault?

2. Anyone have a solution?

3. Any ideas on how to remove the needles?

4. Any ideas on likely components that might be misbehaving? There appears to be ICs, a few discrete transistors, a few crystals, and resistors and capacitors, the last two being very small and flush with the boards' surfaces.

If all else fails, I will just have to find a replacement instrument cluster that works for now - then try to swap out components in mine until I can narrow down the problem. If I can remove the needles, I should be able to make a replacement one look like my current one.

Thanks if you can help.
Eric

[wasyoungonce]

About the only thing I can think of is that most panels use a 12V (or 10V) regulator to take the cars alternator O/P and regulate it down.

These can go bad and stop instruments working.

But that said they were usually only placed in line for Tacho, Speedo and fuel & temp...so they would not vary when voltage from the alternator varied..aka you speed up. This regulator is inside cluster..behind one of the instruments.

I don't think they would be used to run V+ for warning lights though.

You can usually pull out the relevant instruments by undoing screws or small nuts at the back of the cluster.

Hope this helps...a pic when taken apart..and or numbers from the ICs tells a thousand words.

[erick]

Thanks, that sounds very promising - the fuel gauge also gradually drifts down to zero when the other instruments are off. I seem to recall a similar problem years ago on my old Sigma - fuel gauge misbehaving and I think it was a voltage regulator that was pushed into a socket or something, rather than soldered - cleaned the legs and the fuel gauge worked well until the car was traded in (for the value of the residual registration!)

If there is one - it should just be a three leg device in a TO-92, or maybe TO-220 package??

[Outbackmanyep]

For all the instruments to go out at once usually says to me that it could be not the instruments but a power supply problem.
Check the simple things first, like battery terminals, and cables, and even the fuse protecting the instrument circuits, make sure it doesn't have dirty connections.

Whatever the problem it sounds like it has to be something that has a common connection with all the instruments on the dash.
Don't go overboard and rush in to blame the entire cluster, by taking apart the instruments you might damage something that may not be the root cause of the problem.

[erick]

Yes, I first thought "fuse!". But they were all fine. Hmmm....

When instruments are off, I can pull the cluster out and measure 12V coming in on the power line to the socket. I'm confident power in is OK. Have cleaned all the connectors on plugs and in sockets.

[taminga16]

Hi Eric,
Do a search of car forums, Lancers are popular with the younger set and they are always pulling stuff apart and putting it back together.
Good luck.
Greg.

[erick]

Google was obviously not my friend. I had googled vigorously previously - but now I search in the various car fora I'm finding threads with the problem that I didn't find earlier. Some reading ahead. Thanks for the hint, Greg.

[Outbackmanyep]

You have to check ignition power as well as it is the ignition supply that switches on your instruments, regardless of what power is there with the key in the off position.
I'd be checking to see if there is an ignition relay which performs the function as many different vehicles run different systems, im not sure what is on yours though. Modern vehicles do usually run an ignition relay or several, even though you might hear a "click" when the key is in the ON position doesn't necessarily mean the relay is functioning correctly.

You might be better off assembling the cluster, plugging it in and with the key on gently move the wiring plugs and along the loom and see if it's not a loose connection somewhere else, it can be as silly as a faulty ignition relay (ie: contacts worn over time or burnt, which can lead to the intermittent problem) a faulty joint/connection, broken wire, or a loose/dirty fuse in the fuseholder (not necessarily a blown one!)

I'm still not convinced its a cluster problem,mind you i am at least 1000kms away! LOL

If all else fails, pay me a visit, i am an auto elec!

[torana68]

go to pick a part in melbourne (I think there are 2?) and buy a replacement cluster, you have to take it out yourself and the prices are pretty good.

[erick]

Outbackman, you are worrying me - I was convinced I had it isolated to the cluster. I'll look into your suggestion, thanks. And I'd love to visit. 1035km away - Hmmmmm..... On second thought.

I saw instrument clusters listed at $175 on one website - I would have hoped $100 or less. I'll just have to check out a few wreckers.

[ZeroID]

Join one of the Lancer forums and post your problem up. Several out there. We're a 'Mitsi' family, we own 4 at present and Mitsi's can have some electrical issues ( although we've been lucky so far ). There's plenty of expertise on them amongst the 'boyracer' set and normally they are pleased to help.

[Outbackmanyep]

Being so far away it'd be hard to diagnose it without seeing it, but thats about all i can help you with, things aren't always necessarily that complicated, and if you choose to go with another dash thats up to you, wreckers never give your money back so buyer beware!

[erick]

Been thinking about what I know so far and your suggestion might be right. I'll do more testing. I'll set up a meter to monitor voltage at the circuit board as the panel operates. I have found the voltage regulator on the speedo circuit board but it does not seem to be connected to the other instruments that also go off - so back to thinking about power in.

Have listened carefully and cannot hear any relays clicking as I switch on the ignition. But it is likely there is one. It would likely have multiple sets of contacts? eg. one to instruments, one to radio etc?

[wasyoungonce]

Usually the fuel and water temp are bi-metal current gauges (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-gauge.htm/printable) (in older cars)...that is they are a bi-metal strip with a coil of wire around this strip.

As I is passed thru the coil the bi-metal heats and deflects..which then moves the fuel pointer.

Thus Voltage for these gauges must be stabilised as I is a function of Voltage. There must be a regulator for these instruments.

However that said..these regulators are usually for the fuel and water temp..not the speedo etc...that I know of..so it is more than likely the V supply to this that is being lost.

[taminga16]

Hi Eric,
When the ignition relay in my Mazda powers up the instrument needles (Tacho & Speedometer) 'Flick' and then settle.
Greg.

[Outbackmanyep]

The radio is covered by the accessory relay, there would be a few relays activated by the ignition, ie: fuel pump, dash, ECU etc.
It might pay to talk to a Mitsubishi service centre to get advice and see if you can get any sense out of it.

It sounds like an intermittent problem and the fault is always going to be hard to track down, but i bet it'll be something simple!

[erick]

Many thanks guys - leave it with me. I'll let you know. No dump lump of metal, plastic and wiring is going to beat me! :P

[PCH]

Erick,

I'm not a car person. But since you said initially that it was a heat related problem, would it be a worthwhile thing to do to just apply the 12v (and earth) by means of a makeshift cable/connector, and operate the cluster out in the sun, or failing that, in the oven, to duplicate the heat. I'm not suggesting you should shove it in alongside tonights curry, but if the cluster stops working at sa fairly lowish ambient temp, it may help pinpoint the problem.

Daft as it may sound, I did actually actually manage to find a fault on a pcb years ago by heating it in the oven to find a heat related problem. Of course, you have to learn to work quite fast as it's a bit uncomfortable squishing up and working in such a confined space :lol:

PS - if this is a totally crap suggestion, my apols in advance :confused2:

Cheers :thumbsup:

[erick]

Nope, Paul, you are on the right track for this sort of fault. :thumbsup: But I'll use a hairdryer on low setting and a can of refrigerant spray alternately! :D

But I have pulled the instrument cluster and put it in the fridge for half an hour after which it then works - but I now cannot rule out something other than temperature sensitivity in the cluster itself. :sadeyes: More testing to do.

[Outbackmanyep]

Does the cluster have round connectors (ie: pins on the back of the dash) or flat plugs (ie: the printed circuit is flexible and has exposed copper connections that the plugs contact when pushed in) ?

[Louwai]

Eric,
I've read through the responses & I'm surprised that no one has offered what I would think to be an obvious fix to the problem.


BUY ANOTHER CAR !!!!!!!!! :D

[erick]

What! I'm only up to 300,000 km - heaps of life in it yet! :D

[erick]

It is the second.

I'm close to a solution. It won't be as the factory designed it - but I'm confident it will work. (Funny, the guy that said on another site some years ago - connect 12V to this screw head - he was onto something! But I'll be a bit more sophisticated than that - don't want the instrument cluster going up in a cloud of smoke and flames!)

That is if I cannot spot the power problem on the main board - I suspect the voltage regulator is playing up. If I can prove that, I will replace it. But a little further testing, and sleuthing to be done on how the circuit is supposed to work.

[ballaratdragons]

I'm in agreement of the suggestion of 'Join a Lancer Forum'.

I joined the AMC: Australian Magna Club, and they have been amazingly helpful with tips, tricks and where to get parts really cheap.

Its like being in here but its all about Magna's instead of Telescopes.

Try a Lancer Forum.

[ballaratdragons]

Try this Lancer Forum Eric. I don't know anything about it, but may be worth a try.

http://www.miragelancer.com/index.php?p=1_2

Or this Mitsubishi Australia Forum: http://www.mitsubishiclubaustralia.com/forums/

[Outbackmanyep]

Have a closer look at the printed circuit and see that theres no hairline cracks, they sometimes occur particularly on the bend where the copper is insulated.
Other than that i'd take it to mitsubishi or an auto elec and get it checked out.

[erick]

Thanks everyone, I have it working again. I made a mod to deal with the problem and all is fine. (in short, I have provided fused and regulated 12V to the place on the instrument cluster where it was going missing.)

And just in time to allow it to clock up 300,000 km (which it would have actually done a week ago, but it got recorded yesterday).

Outbackman, it's too old for me to spend other than small money on this problem - I save my maintenance money for tyres and routine maintenance on the mechanicals. Anything else I have to fix myself, if I can.

[Outbackmanyep]

Good to see you made a temporary fix, tis a shame you were so far away otherwise i'd be able to have a look at it for you!
It'd probably see the vehicle's life out!

Cheers!

[BobLancer]

Eric,

I have the exact same heat-related problem with my Lancer. Do you have any details of your fix (photos etc maybe)?

[erick]

Hi Bob

If you will send me your phone number in a Private Message, I'll give you a call. I will need to explain a few things. It has turned out to not be as simple as I thought.

Eric

[Nightshift]

Out of curiosity, what error codes (if any) are set in your ECM?

Dennis.

[erick]

"ECM" :question:

[erick]

Guess what? Had my Mitsubishi workshop have the electrician have a look at it today during a service. The report is "a hairline crack in a circuit board". Can be fixed for a reasonable price. I've told them to go ahead. (UPDATE - report said "split in wire in cluster. replaced". All working fine now.)

So I not going to know where it was. Wish I did, because I inspected the whole cluster very closely. I don't like being defeated by inanimate objects! :mad2:

Anyway, there you go! Outbackmanyep knows what he is talking about. :thumbsup:

But I did delay spending the money for many months, which is good.

(Good day all round - oil spray was just a leaking hardened seal on the cap; brakes can wait until the next service; steering rack can wait until the next service. The worst they could find was wiper blades needing replacement! Nearly 316k km on the clock now!)