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  #1  
Old 11-02-2024, 08:21 AM
Geochron (Jon)
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ASI 2600MM duo

looks like ZWO have produced a mono version of the ASI 2600 duo. Nice review here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOvRumYgFco
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  #2  
Old 11-02-2024, 10:07 AM
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Nikolas (Nik)
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Unfortunately if you have a refractor at f5 or above and use the better 3nm narrowband filters the performance is flaky or may not guide at all.
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Old 11-02-2024, 11:22 AM
Geochron (Jon)
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definitely a niche product...but great for those who can use it.
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Old 11-02-2024, 11:29 AM
Dave882 (David)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikolas View Post
Unfortunately if you have a refractor at f5 or above and use the better 3nm narrowband filters the performance is flaky or may not guide at all.
This would certainly be my concern as well. Although I see some reviews/reports on CN online saying the osc version it still seems to work ok with dual-narrowband filters…
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Old 11-02-2024, 01:54 PM
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Nikolas (Nik)
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Hi Dave
I'm specifically mentioning 3nm filters such as the optolong L-Ultimate as they are the most problematic with slowish scopes even with the colour version.
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  #6  
Old 11-02-2024, 04:37 PM
Leo.G (Leo)
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Pardon the ignorance (I haven't watched the video) but what does a dual camera do?
I needn't ask, it's out of my price range but I saw mention of the dual units and I'm a little confused.
I guess the video would probably explain it to an idiot like myself?


Quote:
looks like ZWO have produced a mono version of the ASI 2600 duo

And talk about confusion, a mono of a duo?
I know, while claiming to be an idiot I'm not that big of an idiot, Mono as in not colour as implied by the ZWO MM designation.


It did hit me at first as confusing.
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  #7  
Old 11-02-2024, 05:35 PM
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floyd_2 (Dean)
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Hi Leo,
this is a version of the camera with both a main chip, and also an offset smaller chip for guiding. It's sort of an all-in-one camera that also does the work of an off axis guider, but without a separate OAG unit and camera.

I'm pretty sure that the current version is only an MC (colour) version. The introduction of an MM version (mono) might be interesting for some. The problem as I see it is that if you use filters, you only receive the filtered light to the main imaging chip AND the guiding chip. This may not be enough light for guiding. However, with a normal OAG setup, you can pick the light for the guide camera before the filter (if you use a filter) giving you an unmodified clean light source for guiding. You can also rotate the position of the guide camera separately to the main imaging camera when using a normal (not duo) setup to find more guide stars if the field is a little on the sparse side. This helps with framing whilst finding the best guide stars.

This is where the comments of the DUO being a little limiting come from. Of course, you also can't later upgrade your guide camera in the DUO without needing to either sell, then buy a new camera - or waste the onboard guide camera and use a separate OAG setup / camera.

Dean

Last edited by floyd_2; 11-02-2024 at 05:50 PM.
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  #8  
Old 12-02-2024, 09:25 AM
Leo.G (Leo)
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Thank you Dean!
I was wondering if it may have been a guide camera.
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  #9  
Old 25-07-2024, 09:49 AM
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Its funny that so many people look at this like its either

A - A brand new never before considered solution.
B - Silly because you're guiding through filters, potentially tight bandpass narrowband and that will somehow be unworkable.

A - SBIG were making self guided (dual sensor) cameras in the early 2000's... This is not a new concept by a long way..

B - PLENTY of people used them with stunning success through all manner of filters, and different optical systems. Everything from the ST7ME through to the STL-11000M... These older CCD's required far longer exposures than the modern cmos cameras, the guide sensors in the cameras were smaller, with far fewer pixels than modern guide sensors, and yet people would still have a self guided 35mm sensor in a fast refractor like an FSQ106 with the reducer (~f/3.9) and be quite comfortable running ~1200s subs night after night, year after year, using 6 and 3nm narrowband filters... Equally, something like an ST10XME on a 10~12" F/10 SCT using a tiny guide chip through 3nm narrowband filters.

As with everything, I think people get so caught up in the fine details of equipment and end up overthinking everything.

Dual chiped cameras have existed for decades, and have worked brilliantly for MANY MANY people... Just check from 2005~2015, how many APOD's came from SBIG cameras, MOST of which would have been self guided... Sure, some people used a remote guide head on their SBIG, but plenty of people didn't..

If another company would produce a dual chip camera, I'd be all over it.. I miss my old self guided SBIG's, but at the same time I've seen more than enough horror stories about ZWO to not buy their products..
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  #10  
Old 25-07-2024, 02:28 PM
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Curious. I wonder if they are being produced under a license with SBIG/Diffraction limited (who hold the patent) or whether the patent has lapsed.

The best iteration of this tech came out over a decade ago was SBIG's self guiding CFW which integrated CFW/guider/camera into one unit that was also AO compatible.

Seems what was old is new again.
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  #11  
Old 25-07-2024, 03:47 PM
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Always the way Peter...

I agree, regarding the self guided CFW.

AO is one of the other things that really seems to have disappeared over the years, I don't understand how the concept hasn't become SUPER mainstream... Tilting a small refractive element 5~10 times a second is easier and more accurate than nudging a mount once every couple of seconds, and while yes, mount technology has got to a point where guiding in many cases is not even required, from a budget perspective, a cheap 'reasonable' mount with a decent AO system is far more attainable than a ~$20,000 mount with absolute RA and DEC encoders is.

I remember having my C11 on the back of a poor old EQ6, right at the absolute limit of the capacity, and the AO-8 making my mount look like a superstar....
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  #12  
Old 25-07-2024, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexN View Post
Always the way Peter...

I agree, regarding the self guided CFW.

AO is one of the other things that really seems to have disappeared over the years, I don't understand how the concept hasn't become SUPER mainstream... ..
As we have drifted onto this, I'm of a similar view regarding AO and my comments elsewhere might be worth repeating.

I was one of the very early Beta testers and owner of the original SBIG mirrored AO unit.

Just so we are clear and in difference to comments elsewhere, SBIG’s AO is not a “guider”.

It is indeed a first order (read: tip-tilt) adaptive optics device.

But don’t take my word for it: Hardy’s “Adaptive Optics for Astronomical Telescopes” 1998 Oxford University Press will also give that view plus sooo much more….

The natural enemy of the SBIG AO was UPS….and I’m not talking about stable power supplies…but United Parcel Service.
They were precision bits of kit that needed TLC and simply did not like being tossed about. Their journey from and assembly in San Luis Obispo to arrival at Botany Bay was similar to the First Fleet’s. Not a good one.

As a result with “my dealer hat on” I recalibrated a number of AO’s that clearly had been placed into a tumble dryer for several hours just for good measure.

Correctly re-calibrated the original AO running …wait for it… MS DOS….with say a magnitude 6 or brighter guide star can and did modulate the mirror up to 30Hz.

The seeing however had to be “slow” to really see a measured improvement with the AO in place. If the air was “boiling” better not to image with the AO or for that matter, period, on such nights.
The migration of its operating software from DOS to windows was also not a happy one. The GUI overhead slowed down AO to about 20Hz.

As the original AO was a mirrored device, optical theory tells us we got double the movement at the focal plane, for x-amount of angular tilt, compared to refractive device.
Hence no surprise that when the touchy-mirror was dumped in favor of albeit a more robust refractive Adaptive optic the maximum guiding rate dropped to about 15Hz (computers also got faster running Windoze).

As to AO not being in too many amateur hands these days, well yes that is true. I think it’s simply the cost. AO’s are expensive, but given the right conditions, can measurably improve FWHM’s.

For many however, dropping several $K dollars for an accessory that gives you 20% sharper data only on suitable nights…meh....you’d probably buy more CMOS acreage instead.

But for the OCD among us (self included) who seek imaging Nirvana….it another essential tool in your imaging arsenal.
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  #13  
Old 25-07-2024, 05:59 PM
Dennis
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Quasar, PMN J1451-1512, Mag 19.14, Redshift (z): 4.76, Light Time: 13.0 Gyr.

I used the Database Power Search in SkyTools 4 Imaging to generate a list of Quasars with a Redshift (z) greater than 4.5 and one of the targets returned was the QSO PMN J1451-1512 in Libra.

This is an image of Quasar, PMN J1451-1512, Mag 19.14, Redshift (z): 4.76, Light Time: 13.0 Gyr taken with my Celestron C9.25 Edge HD and ASI2600MM Duo in Brisbane suburban skies (Bortle 6 to 7) on 28th June 2024.

Celestron C9.25 Edge HD F10 2350mm.
ASI2600MM Duo.
11x5 min exposures.

I have attached a couple of images showing what the Autoguider saw at the native F10 2350mm focal length of the C9.25.

The maximum exposure of theASI220M built-in guide camera sensor is limited to 10 secs by the ZWO software drivers.

I had the back focus set to 146mm as specified by Celestron and the stars in the guider aren’t too bad at F10.

Dennis.
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  #14  
Old 25-07-2024, 06:58 PM
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Yep, I had the AO-7 first, 90⁰ tip-tilt mirror on my st9, then an AO-8 on my st8, and it moved with me to the st4000xme and finally to the st10xme, however I couldn't get one for the st8300m which was a bit sad... and unfortunately I've never had the opportunity to get an STL11K or bigger sensor to try the AO-L...
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