I may need to shutdown IceInSpace :(

[RB (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by MortonH

We can't lose IIS. I probably spend more time here than all the other sites I visit combined.

$20 a year would be fine. It's less than a pizza and I need to lose weight anyway!

You’re also the Icetrade king Morton.

[ccmanny (Manny)]

Agree with the strategy of unhindered access for research/reply/post but a subscription to post in classifieds

[Joshua Bunn (Joshua)]

If a subscription is a turn off for new comers, who are yet to see the value in this site, possibly making the first year free would help with getting them on board, thereafter there is a fee, IF they want to continue.

[Outcast (Carlton)]

Another site i use (not astro related) uses 'seller fees' (as well as other methods of raising funds).

From what I recall it is 4% of whatever you sell your item for... when you mark your item sold it prompts you for the fee.

Dunno how much $ wise gets turned over here in the classifieds but, a small fee on successful sale, provided such an initiative would generate sufficient income to cover hosting costs doesn't seem overly onerous.

Less 'exclusive club' like as access remains free & open, you just have to contribute to costs when you sell stuff via the sites...

My1.5c less, gst

[Startrek (Martin)]

It would be sad to see IIS shutdown, 7 years for me , such a wonderful engaging Astro forum
More than happy to subscribe to keep it alive !!

Martin

[astronobob (Bob)]

Agree with all said, subscriptions, donations and newbies 1yr free,, It is a fantastic forum, saddening to loose

[OzEclipse (Joe Cali)]

Mike,

Sorry to hear this.

I'm part of the moderator team for the sky searchers forum.
https://theskysearchers.com/app.php/portal

Our membership sits at around 4000 although active contributing membership number is much less.

Hosting fees are about USD350 per quarter, similar to what you are quoting. The donations button is only opened a fortnight before the next quarterly payment is due. It usually only takes a matter of days before the $350 is raised.

If we go over before the donation button is switched off, the money is set aside for the next payment.

Joe

[EpickCrom (Joe)]

I agree with what everyone has said, we cannot lose IIS!

I've learned a lot from here since starting in Astronomy in 2020, and I'm willing to chip in financially as well.

Long Live IIS!!

[TrevorW]

Set up a free Facebook group for newbies then get them to shift over to paid web page later

[glend (Glen)]

If you use a site like Astrobin as an example, there is an annual fee which is automatically charged by his system, unless you opt out. However, Astrobin offers a significantly different site than IIS, in that it is a storage site, and now it is backed up. There was a time when it did regularly have database issues but admin has significantly improved the infrastructure.

The second example is Cloudy Nights, which is owned by an astronomy equipment vendor, and where membership entitles a small purchasing discount. Cloudy Nights is a massive site, with a large primarily American membership, so sponsorships, and economies of scale are working there.

I am members of both of those sites, and happily pay my hosting fee at Astrobin (primarily because I do not have to find anywhere else, and I continue to get very nice views despite my not being so active in imaging these days).

I see IIS as primarily a chat site, and a sales board. And frankly the only time some people seem to appear is to flog something in the Classifieds. So yes, if your only selling stuff then be prepared to kick in a percentage of your sale. In recent years, a fair number of older, or longer appearing members, seem to have pulled back a lot. Some if this is likely due to the weariness of age, illness, and a lack of a sense of community which has been noticed. There used to be regular dark site trips in the eastern states, and local trips and events, all if which build the sense if community. All if the big star parties in NSW are gone, one of which was put on by IIS. Even the Astro Society is winding down. Poor Al Meehan is stuck with heaps of Star Party equipment, and a lack of interest in people helping out. Simply, the sense of community and mateship has gone. I organised a couple of Central Coast Morning Tea to get people talking and may be planning. The last time we met last year there were three of us that showed up, and a cornerstone member Al Lovett has sold off his astro equipment. We lost a big personality earlier this year, Alex E, controversial at times, but he got folks excited.

While I appreciate the issues that IIS faces, they are not unique issues, as many people are time poor, aging, and frankly everyone is squeezed financially, especially those with mortgages.

The future may have to look to fees but there needs to be some value associated with charging. And the older cadre needs more help from the younger ones to keep the excitement level up. In my opinion.

[dugnsuz (Doug)]

Happy to pay an Annual subscription a la Astrobin to help retain IIS.

As for frightening off potential subscribers, perhaps a trial period/subscription similar to some apps could be used with an option for the potential subscriber to bail before money is debited, or stay if they like IIS??

It really would be a shame to lose the best, most trustworthy Astro classifieds section too.

[Saturnine (Jeff)]

Mikes post about a possible shutdown is not the best news I've heard today but going by the response already there seems to be plenty of forum members who would happily pay a yearly fee or donation semi regularly to keep the site afloat. That includes me, happy to pay in some way, maybe via Paypal or similar.
Maybe a poll could be launched to get an insight as to how many of the thousands of members would be happy to pay for the forum to stay alive. Would certainly miss the forums and classifieds if it were to disappear.

[pmrid (Peter)]

The subscription proposal may not be the best if it creates problems with BAS statements, annual returns, accountants etc. Similar problems amay also arise with a User-Pays fee for Classifieds. Perhaps the donations idea is better suited from that point of view.

Personally, I favour a user-pays fee on sales of equipment. But there are numerous problems that go with it such as how to collect. Those who understand how PayPal works could possibly suggest a way to make it work.

For my part, IIS has become an entrenched part of my astro experience and I would lament it's passing greatly.

[Leo.G (Leo)]

Forced subscriptions tend to annoy certain people and I have found a simple request for donations works great and members will give what they can inline with the value of the forum to each individual. Any shortfall is as simple as "we need a little more to cover costs" and members are only too happy to help out.

I run a small forum (past 6 years as administrator) and it's around $400US per 2 years for servers/hosting fees for VPS hosting with a company called A2 hosting.com. Unmanaged hosting for those with the time and abilities is cheap, managed hosting becomes a lot dearer. Web hosting is also cheap through them.

I can not afford any such payments myself for the forum and didn't start it but was asked to take over as administrator when the original owner had mental health problems. I was also administrator on the previous forum with 3,000,000 members world wide, again, fully funded by donations but I had absolutely nothing to do with the financial side of that place. I was asked to step up when the owner had a child and no longer had the time but I was happy for him to handle the financial side of the business. I believe that site cost $1500 per month going back as far as 2007.

The little forum I run, sadly members are dropping like flies (small community discussion forum for members of a much larger defunct forum to keep in touch, some members just got old and passed away sadly). Solid riendships were formed over the 17 years of the much larger forum being up and a lot of members became good online friends. It's just a place for us to keep in touch basically and discuss common interests and maintain friendships formed over a lot of years of getting to know each other.
Every time it comes time to renew servers there's a couple of things I do as the administrator. I have my son search out the best deals/hosts (he programs, runs servers and understands a lot of the finer details that I don't) and I put out a request for donations. At last renewal there were only around 10 members in a position to donate but the funds came in without a hitch in the shortest possible time to maintain the place. There's no donation lists kept or published and everyone participating in the forum are thanked for their contributions, whether financial or content to keep the place interesting. I've found in the past paid subscriptions tend to give members a sense of entitlement.

I have read on here in the past the owner/administrator doesn't want to make it a subscription forum and I wholeheartedly agree. I've also seen mention from a lot of members where they would be only too happy to make a donation to keep the forum running. Those in a position would do so without question. There's absolutely nothing wrong with accepting donations to keep the forum alive. A lot of people would really miss the place were it to go down.
I myself would like to add to the list of members who would be only too happy to donate. The trick is no precise amount expected, whatever people can afford/are prepared to donate. The funds would roll in so fast and would keep the place running.
If the administrator reads my post a couple of tricks, old hosts tend to be like insurance companies and add loyaltyfees to keep pricing cheap for new clients so it's best to shop around when renewals are due and multi year sign ups save a considerable amount of money.

My two cents worth but I'm happy to donate $50 if needed.

[leon]

Nice one Leo, I'm with you and the rest of the members, where is the donate button.

Leon

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

Hold on a minute folks,

Before getting too carried away, think a little about where IIS is now & how it got to be so from its hay day some 10 years ago.

Look for all the money raising ways you care for, but if the basis isn't there to maintain it, and it is in desperate need for maintenance & updating, what are you putting your money down for?

Mike, do you want to continue with IIS? Because if Terry is already gone, it looks to all still fall on you, mate, and you have already mentioned in this thread that you are way too busy to make more replies in the very thread you started asking to "fix" IIS. And if you don't want to continue, who will pick it up? This is far more fundamental than a donation button.

Mike, that you are tired of IIS, I get it. I really do. All power to you, brother. You have done an amazing job starting this up. It may well be time to let it go. It is an option too.

[gregbradley]

Originally Posted by Saturn488

Subscription model would be better than a once off donation as there will be a constant amount of funds coming through to keep the site running.

Somewhere in the neighborhood of $15 a year would cover it (if $2k to run it annually then 134 member payments would cover it and I am sure there is more than that here).

I would back this. Subscription model is what Astromart uses and they also have membership levels with different privileges such as different coloured fonts for ads.

Greg.

[AstroViking (Steve)]

IIS was the first astro forum I joined, and it would be sad to see it disappear.

The classifieds section is great - I've bought both my scopes and my camera from here. I've looked at other astro buy/sell places and none of them can compare to IIS.

Similarly, the sense of community is really strong. Other forums don't seem to have the same atmosphere as we have here.

I'd be happy to pay an annual subscription fee to keep the place running.

V.

[iceman (Mike)]

Originally Posted by mental4astro

Hold on a minute folks,

Before getting too carried away, think a little about where IIS is now & how it got to be so from its hay day some 10 years ago.

Look for all the money raising ways you care for, but if the basis isn't there to maintain it, and it is in desperate need for maintenance & updating, what are you putting your money down for?

Mike, do you want to continue with IIS? Because if Terry is already gone, it looks to all still fall on you, mate, and you have already mentioned in this thread that you are way too busy to make more replies in the very thread you started asking to "fix" IIS. And if you don't want to continue, who will pick it up? This is far more fundamental than a donation button.

Mike, that you are tired of IIS, I get it. I really do. All power to you, brother. You have done an amazing job starting this up. It may well be time to let it go. It is an option too.

There's definitely points to consider in this, which I have already thought about. But don't have answers yet.

My interest in space & astronomy is still there, but not in a practical sense and not in a way that requires a lot of my time. We've seen countless times over the last 20 years people come and go.. some people rediscovered the hobby after many years away from it. Some people left the hobby after many years in it. That's only natural.

The easiest solution (for me) is to simply let it die - people will naturally find other places to congregate.

However, if there's ways to keep the site and community going, I'm keen to explore those options because this site is 20 years old! There's a lot to be proud of, and with some effort , it might be the chance to reinvigorate it - with help.
That is, finding someone who can help maintain the site or forums more. The moderators (RB, h0ughy, sheeny) and Suzy on FB have done a fantastic job keeping things ticking along. Whether it's them (they're tired too!) or someone else who has the inclination, energy, etc to help maintain things, would be required.

I definitely know that we can't stay on the current hosting site. I'll need to pay the current bill to keep the site going while I work on finding another provider, getting on a new platform (modern version of vBulletin etc), and can still get the marketplace side going. There's a lot of custom code Terry did to get IceTrade like it is now. So any new solution won't be exactly the same.

Originally Posted by glend

I see IIS as primarily a chat site, and a sales board. And frankly the only time some people seem to appear is to flog something in the Classifieds. So yes, if your only selling stuff then be prepared to kick in a percentage of your sale. In recent years, a fair number of older, or longer appearing members, seem to have pulled back a lot. Some if this is likely due to the weariness of age, illness, and a lack of a sense of community which has been noticed. There used to be regular dark site trips in the eastern states, and local trips and events, all if which build the sense if community. All if the big star parties in NSW are gone, one of which was put on by IIS. Even the Astro Society is winding down. Poor Al Meehan is stuck with heaps of Star Party equipment, and a lack of interest in people helping out. Simply, the sense of community and mateship has gone. I organised a couple of Central Coast Morning Tea to get people talking and may be planning. The last time we met last year there were three of us that showed up, and a cornerstone member Al Lovett has sold off his astro equipment. We lost a big personality earlier this year, Alex E, controversial at times, but he got folks excited.

While I appreciate the issues that IIS faces, they are not unique issues, as many people are time poor, aging, and frankly everyone is squeezed financially, especially those with mortgages.

I was kind of alluding to this too.. there's definitely elements of truth here and that's natural with any community of any kind - online or in person. There's always changes, people come and go, and it requires a lot of work (and new blood) to keep the community invigorated.

[Peter Ward]

Perhaps take on the AstroMart.com model. Charge advertisers in the Buy/Swap/Sell section to make a listing ($5?) or have a two tiered user system...want to sell stuff? Then pay $15 a year...hardly a big impost.